News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by ngngngng on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:23PM (#23332306)
It was recently affirmed in court that the first amendment applies to the government, not corporations. See PragerU v Youtube. I'm curious what he thinks he's going to do though. Any guesses?
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by jmeyer2k on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:28PM (#23332343)
Just a guess: He's going to enact an illegal order that will be overruled by a court immediately.

He can't change the first amendment.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by VWWHFSfQ on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:43PM (#23332484)
At least it will bring up the larger discussion that the social media platforms are the de facto sources for news and information. Hopefully this will lead to a Senate evaluation of the roles that Twitter, Facebook, and Google play in dissimmination of information to Americans.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by Simulacra on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:44PM (#23332495)
And hopefully removing their immunity
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by foogazi on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @11:28PM (#23333075)
Republicans have had full control of the house, senate, supreme court & FCC a couple of times and no action has been taken on it
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by downerending on Thursday May 28, 2020 @11:54AM (#23338763)
True, but the situation has gotten notably worse recently. Even some of the left must be getting a bit nauseated by what's happening.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by aurelius12 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:26PM (#23332327)
He's going to appeal to his base is what he's going to do, while repelling almost everyone else on earth. As usual.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by VWWHFSfQ on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:46PM (#23332507)
"appeal to his base" is the a reductive way to describe an enormous number of Americans. Overwhelming, even.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by adjkant on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:50PM (#23332536)
Overwhelming = under 25% of the US population that voted for him in 2016? Even among registered voters only it's still under 50% - how is that overwhelming?
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by Simulacra on Thursday May 28, 2020 @01:12PM (#23339793)
At least he's not Hillary...or Biden.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by VWWHFSfQ on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:52PM (#23332550)
most people don't vote. but they still support Trump. They would support any republican candidate
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by dragonwriter on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @11:22PM (#23333047)
> most people don't vote. but they still support Trump.

It's like the IRL version of claiming support from lurkers.

> They would support any republican candidate

Republican Party identification is pretty constant at 25-30%, below both Democratic and Independent.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by foogazi on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @11:22PM (#23333045)
> “most people”

For “most” do you mean in terms of population count?

For “people” do you mean registered voters ?

Republicans would win every election if that was the case

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by adjkant on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:55PM (#23332573)
Big citation needed on who of non-voters support Trump. Most opinion polls that include anyone (not just registered voters) still have Trump's approval at 40ish percent the past 4 years.

If you say all polling is invalid/not representative, where are you getting your numbers from?

And again, what makes this overwhelming?

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by dekhn on Thursday May 28, 2020 @12:44PM (#23339415)
his base is tiny. he was only elected because he had a base, plus a lot of republicans held their noses and voted for him. His true base is getting smaller every day; I have a bunch of friends in the midwest and many of them have reported that even the folks they knew who were huge Trump supporters have decided he's crossed too many lines (specifically, disrespecting the military, the covid press briefings, attacking people unnecessarily, and not actually helping working people) and plan to simply not vote in the presidential election (rather than voting for biden). I was struck at how many of my friends reported this rapid shift over the past few months.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by swasheck on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:28PM (#23332350)
It’s what he does. Appeal to the base, defy common sense, and allow for the rabid frenzied masses respond as they will.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by belltaco on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @10:48PM (#23332863)
Another similar ruling just a few hours ago rejecting an appeal in a different case.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/499808-appeals-court-r...

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by paulgb on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:28PM (#23332344)
Section 230 is the most obvious target here.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by tptacek on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:31PM (#23332373)
Does the CDA delegate regulatory authority over 230 to the executive branch? If so, what authority is that?
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by anigbrowl on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @10:17PM (#23332703)
He might try having the FCC enforce it; they recently got a quorum again.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by casefields on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:29PM (#23332364)
From a previous draft:

"The Trump administration’s proposal seeks to significantly narrow the protections afforded to companies under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, a part of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Under the current law, internet companies are not liable for most of the content that their users or other third parties post on their platforms. Tech platforms also qualify for broad legal immunity when they take down objectionable content, at least when they are acting “in good faith.”

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/tech/white-house-social-media...

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by Simulacra on Thursday May 28, 2020 @01:12PM (#23339795)
Which should be eliminated.
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by TechBro8615 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:27PM (#23332338)
Your guess is as good as mine. Personally, I think the free speech issue is an albatross. What’s much more concerning to me is Twitter arbitrarily “fact checking” Trump’s tweets, but nobody else’s. More generally, the systemic bias tends to lean against conservative voices far more often than liberal voices. There are numerous examples of double standards in terms of who is banned or censored from platforms, or even who/what shows up in the search results.

Search “Joe Biden creepy” on google, and then search the same thing on Bing. Why are the results so different?

Try sending a private message on Facebook containing the string “joebiden.info.” Why won’t it send?

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by sammalloy on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:37PM (#23332430)
> More generally, the systemic bias tends to lean against conservative voices far more often than liberal voices.

This is a popular, but baseless conspiracy theory.

The myth of social media anti-conservative bias refuses to die https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/platform-bias.php

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by MisterBastahrd on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:33PM (#23332405)
Google invests more in making sure that it has quality search results, and the algorithms are just different. Not really that complicated.

The NY Post is a low quality tabloid that is just a step above the Enquirer, for example.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by warrenm on Thursday May 28, 2020 @08:25AM (#23336424)
>Google invests more in making sure that it has quality search results

Define "quality"

You may find Google results more to your personal liking

Yet others will find Other Search Engine™ has "better" results

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by TechBro8615 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:39PM (#23332449)
I have a hard time believing that the results page for “Joe Biden creepy” is not at least semi-manually curated. For example, none of the “creepy” videos that show up are the most comprehensive versions of the clips someone would want to watch to inform themselves of what somebody is referring to when calling him creepy. It’s also not hard for me to believe Google would take such action, given the political makeup of their employees, and the fact that they have been recorded suggesting their commitment to making Trump a “blip” in history.

It’s also worth noting that was only one example I cited. It doesn’t change the fact that Twitter has only ever “fact checked” Trump (by linking to CNN), and that Facebook prohibits you from sending links to JoeBiden.info in private messages. Are these not clear examples of bias?

You can make the argument that these companies have the right to as much bias as they want on their own platforms. But you cannot in good faith make the argument that such bias does not exist, or that it’s some conspiracy theory to suggest that it does.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by sammalloy on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:57PM (#23332586)
Here’s the thing: most of us here don’t really care about left or right. We care about good and bad ideas. And for the most part, the Republicans espouse really bad ideas, so bad in fact, that reasonable people vocally call them out on these bad ideas. You and others misperceive this attention as “bias”. Why? It’s simple.

Studies of conservatives show that they prefer authoritarianism and unquestioning loyalty over competency and expertise. When their loyalty to an idea, a leader, or a political ideology is questioned, it undermines their worldview. So the “bias” you are really describing, is just good old fashioned critical thinking, which by its very design, confronts and questions authority, and upholds values of openness, tolerance, and free inquiry—the bane of conservatism.

All you have to do is come up with good ideas. It’s that simple.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by TechBro8615 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @10:05PM (#23332626)
Thanks for telling me what I prefer.

Critical thinking is great. We should all do it. Just because I agree with that doesn’t mean I want or need some company to do the “critical thinking” for me.

In fact, the things you’re defending tend to get in the way of critical thinking. It’s hard to apply critical thought with incomplete information, which is what tends to be available when news agencies apply selection bias to which stories they report, or search engines remove results they deem derogatory, or social media platforms forbid sending links in private messages.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by sammalloy on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @10:28PM (#23332753)
Are you arguing that the factchecking and verification filters Facebook, and now Twitter, are currently using, somehow impede free inquiry? We should be tolerant, but we should not tolerate intolerance. More to the point, we should not tolerate false news, hoaxes, or conspiracy theories intended to mislead or cause harm. Sadly, conservatives have come to /depend/ on that kind of “fact suppression” to sway people over to their side. We saw it with the rise of birtherism, with the hate-fueled advent of the Tea Party, and in the tribal nativism that led to the election of Trump.

You raise the “incomplete information” tactic, which denialists on both the left and the right depend upon. Climate denialists say we shouldn’t mitigate because we don’t have enough data or they argue that the data is suspect. We know, and we have consensus. Do we need more information about the 18,000 lies Trump has spread already?

Facebook and Twitter are already on record (and off record per the WSJ article yesterday) showing that they gave the benefit of the doubt to conservatives because algorithms were consistently selecting their rhetoric as problematic. Twitter wouldn’t filter out the Nazis, for example, because it also targeted Republican politicians.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by TechBro8615 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @11:11PM (#23332984)
I’m not arguing whether the bias should or shouldn’t exist. I’m arguing that it does exist, which you seem to be refuting for some reason. And I’m certainly going to argue that if platforms try to claim neutrality, they better show evidence of it, or else stop claiming to be neutral.

Are you okay with Facebook banning links in private messages? Why can’t I link to JoeBiden.info, a clearly marked parody website full of factual information, in a private message to a friend? What possible reason could there be for this, other than bias?

Are you okay with Twitter editorializing the president’s tweets, but not doing the same for those of Adam Schiff or Joe Biden? Both of them have promoted baseless conspiracy theories on Twitter, like suggesting Trump is a Russian agent. Yet they’ve never been “fact checked.” Are you okay with the idea that the person in charge of the fact checking initiative at Twitter has a history of publicly calling Trump a “Nazi” and a “racist tangerine?” Does this seem like an arrangement that will result in anything but biased “fact checks?”

I’m having a hard time seeing how this is good for critical thought, as you seem to be suggesting. Telling people what to think is not the basis upon which critical thought develops. If anything, such editorializing will only further polarize people and increase their emotional attachment to pre-existing beliefs.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by supportlocal4h on Thursday May 28, 2020 @12:01AM (#23333254)
I don't Twitter and I don't follow Trump, so I don't know the answer. Does Twitter fact check every Trump tweet? Does it ever find any to be factual? If Trump tweeted that he loves the Jets, would that get fact checked? If he tweeted that FEMA has done a superb job in guiding the WHO through this whole pandemic, would that get fact checked? Or do only some tweets get the treatment?
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by rexer on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:32PM (#23332388)
Genuine question: what do you think of Twitter selectively applying their ToS to Trump?
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by coder4life on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:38PM (#23332436)
Anyone else would have already been banned, so this is kid gloves
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by tensor on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:36PM (#23332425)
If conservatives are so hurt by tech companies then why does Trump owe his presidency to Cambridge Analytics and Facebook?
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by dylan-m on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @09:42PM (#23332475)
Who else's tweets are they going to fact check? The Dalai Lama? They have to start somewhere, and a guy who's using their service to spread disinformation about vote by mail in a blatant attempt to rally his base around contesting an election if it doesn't go his way - hours after terrorizing the surviving family of a political staffer for no obvious reason (again with no basis on fact) - seems like a great place to start. Especially if your company isn't (completely) run by invertebrates. Twitter handed Trump a bullhorn. They didn't need to, but they did. For purely business reasons, I'm sure. But they _own_ that bullhorn, and they can take it away whenever they like. "Just business," his TV character would say.

I can make a website right now; donaldtrumpcantposthere.com; and I can put a little chat room there and people can type whatever they want and maybe it'll show up, but you know what? Whoever posts there, I can do whatever I want with it. I might get in trouble for _other_ things (facilitating online bullying, distributing copyrighted material, etc.), but "free speech" is not one of them. That's how it works when you deal with private corporations. Don't like it? Move to China :b

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by dekhn on Thursday May 28, 2020 @12:49PM (#23339480)
I'd be fine with Twitter fact checking the Dalai Lama. For example, his most recent tweet says "When this blue planet is viewed from space, there are no national boundaries to be seen."

Here's a photo from space of the India-Pakistan border: https://qz.com/india/516864/the-india-pakistan-border-is-so-...

Assuming that's not a fake photo (or that this one is: https://time.com/4780003/international-borders-from-space/), I would say that sufficient evidence exists to say that what the Dalai Lama stated is factually incorrect.

Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by dylan-m on Thursday May 28, 2020 @01:17PM (#23339865)
My point is his factually incorrect statements are generally innocuous, whereas the same statement by the _President of the United States_ is much more of a problem. I think it's unreasonable to expect Twitter to regurgitate such dangerous statements uncritically. The slippery slope thing or the "why do anything if it isn't perfect" thing needn't enter into this: Donald Trump's Twitter account is an objectively different problem than the Dalai Lama's Twitter account. (That's a really cool picture, by the way!).
Re:Trump to sign executive order on social media Thursday by Fjolsvith on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @11:01PM (#23332926)
How about UFO sightings? Bigfoot? Debunked Russian Conspiracy tweets by Adam Schiff?