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Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by factorialboy on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:48PM (#23249032)
VS Code. GitHub. NPM. VS Code Online. GitHub CodeSpaces. Integrated Azure.

A ten year old today learning programming will be locked in. As will JS yuppies and the extremely articulate product manager types.

I like it. Gives me an opportunity to become a "thought leader" by promoting the UNIX approach to enterprises in 5-10 years.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by Doches on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:09PM (#23249260)
Jetbrains. Gitlab. Deno. Aws. We're in a world where there's healthy competition in _all_ of these domains, excepting possibly VS online/GH codespaces which both feel like products too young to have yet found a market.

In what world is a 10-year-old locked in to the MS ecosystem any more than they were in the days of win32 and IE6? If anything, I'd look askance at Apple for Safari's hiding of `view source` by default...

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by pmontra on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:51PM (#23250369)
There is a difference. Amazon doesn't have an OS. Google does but it's not for developers, yet. Apple's is but they care only about their own walled garden, the entrance fee is expensive and they don't have the online ecosystem that Microsoft has built and acquired in the last years. Microsoft is in a good position to control the new developers' experience from the OS to the tools to the deployment cloud (Azure).
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by krzyk on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:31PM (#23250773)
But there is alternative OS - Linux.

Lately I know only devs that work either on macos or on Linux. I haven't seen Windows anywhere since few years (except when I do cloud gaming).

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by pmontra on Thursday May 21, 2020 @01:45AM (#23255191)
I know. I've been developing on Ubuntu since January 2009. Before that I was using colinux on Windows XP, a Linux kernel in a Windows process, somewhat similar to WSL.

http://colinux.org/

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by Voloskaya on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:46PM (#23250320)
When did 'locked in' evolve to mean 'using a product'? None of your examples are remotly akin to lock-in.

An example of a lock-in is excel back in the time when the format wasn't public. Wanna use something different? have fun manually re-entering your sheets in your new software.

How can GitHub CodeSpaces even cross your mind when thinking about lock-in? This is like saying the textbox on HN is a form of lock-in.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by grishka on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:58PM (#23250434)
> An example of a lock-in is excel back in the time when the format wasn't public.

It wasn't public but it was reverse engineered and supported by things like OpenOffice. Anything, especially a file format, that is both proprietary and popular gets reverse engineered at some point.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by jswny on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:03PM (#23249200)
- VSCode is open source, so I'm not sure how that constitutes lock in. Switching text editors is pretty easy.

- GitHub has some special things like issues and pull requests but in general you can just switch your origin URL to another Git repository that isn't GitHub and boom you are off GitHub.

- NPM you can just point your package.json at any Git repository you want, no need to use the NPM package repo.

- VSCode Online: like I said, just use a different online editor.

Not too much lock in going on here. Integrations and seamless workflow? Sure. But lock in? No I don't think so.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by nindalf on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:11PM (#23249280)
> Switching text editors is pretty easy.

Not only is it easy, VS Code made it easier than ever. By creating protocols for language and debugger support, they've liberated future text editor developers from having to support every language under the sun. By adding support for the protocol, the new text editor automatically gains support for all languages.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by toohotatopic on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @04:42PM (#23251538)
It's just a funnel. As a strategy, you 'commodify' the resources that you cannot control, especially those that are profitable to your opponents. MS is losing in languages, they don't own the important languages for mobile phones: java, kotlin, swift and objectivec and they have a hard time on the server against go and all the other contenders. With some luck the web remains open and typescript will remain an important language since javascript will keep on being important.

The moat for the editor is the plugin shop. We will be able to see how committed they are to being open. At least for now, their Live Share plugin doesn't seem to be available for other editors [1]. It's nice to have easy access to debugging but how do you sell your editor if you don't have all the other productivity features?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23244434

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by viklove on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @06:46PM (#23252884)
The same way Slack used to have an IRC bridge, but they shut that down once they were the leading market player.

This is literally the Embrace/Extend part of EEE

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by nindalf on Thursday May 21, 2020 @01:41AM (#23255169)
Oh? And what’s the play after that? How are they going to shut down the protocol or language servers?

Even if they remove support for the protocols, those language and debugging servers still exist. Those servers are controlled by a wide variety of organisations, all of whom are committed to supporting the entire ecosystem of editors.

It doesn’t take much to regurgitate “EEE” on an MS article. If you can’t even imagine how the final E works in a specific case, maybe say nothing at all.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by viklove on Thursday May 21, 2020 @10:50AM (#23259037)
They'll just disable support for it in VSCode. Got a brain up there buddy? Or maybe you're just an MS shill.
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by nal10 on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:29PM (#23249490)
If you can live with crappy lagging UI. Since the stupid Windows 10 skin VS code is unusable.
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by majewsky on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:48PM (#23250335)
It looks like you replied to the wrong comment.
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by gary-kim on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:11PM (#23249281)
With regards to VS Code, there is some, although I'd say not much, lock-in into specifically the Visual Studio Code version of VS Code. Namely, many of the Microsoft extensions only working on the proprietary Visual Studio Code and not the open source VS Code. That does function to negate some of the no lock in benefit of open source.

I don't personally think that Microsoft is attempting EEE here but just bringing up the point that it is, to a certain extent, made hard to fork.

- https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#pro...

- https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/240

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by zamalek on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @04:21PM (#23251309)
> locked in

I've been on the Microsoft train since I was 8. I suffered no problems picking up Rust.

> "thought leader" by promoting the UNIX approach

This is a controversial opinion around here, but the UNIX approach/philosophy isn't particularly good. It is merely beloved. The Microsoft approach isn't much better.

A thought leader would actually solve this problem instead of repeating a tired, old and failed non-solution. UNIX sucks. Windows sucks. This circular appeal to nature (UNIX is good because UNIX is good) is getting really old.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by wvenable on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:50PM (#23250359)
> A ten year old today learning programming will be locked in.

If that's what you call "locked in" things are significantly better these days than they were 20-30 years ago!

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by nojito on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:51PM (#23249061)
As opposed to AWS/GCP and others?

There is almost no lock in to any product in 2020....people just love the developer ecosystem that MS has built these past 5-8 years or so.

Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by tryauuum on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:08PM (#23249925)
to think about it... Microsoft also owns Minecraft, so a ten year old redstone scientist is already locked in, even without Git, NPM and all those things
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by negativegate on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:35PM (#23250192)
Locked in ... to a game?
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by mds on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:46PM (#23250933)
You laugh, but Minecraft Education Edition -- where lots of kids are getting their first exposure to coding -- is locked to Office 365.
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by tryauuum on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:00PM (#23250456)
yeah, sounds silly
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by briantakita on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:14PM (#23249983)
And then there's the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation that funds the World Health Organization & invests in Bayer/Monsanto among other medical & food entities. The vendor lock in is Cradle to Grave it seems...
Re:Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish by briantakita on Thursday May 21, 2020 @07:03PM (#23266618)
Oh no! An "inconvenient" & related fact is mentioned. Better downvote the HN way.