News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by thisisbrians on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @04:49PM (#23096129)
So, I checked out Cyberleads[1], and...this dude is just literally (and brazenly) selling a list of startup executives' emails without their permission or consent. Not sure if that's even legal, but it's definitely scummy, and I hate when I get cold (and frequently, also technically SPAM) emails like the ones this guys is enabling.

Here's a direct quote from the site[1]:

  Every day, we scour the web and find every single startup that just
  raised money. We collect information about these companies, like
  revenue, size, LinkedIn and Twitter profiles, CEO information,
  emails, and much more.

  We then further investigate, and verify manually every entry on the
  list. Every single data point is checked, every single email is
  verified. Manually. By a human.
1. https://www.getcyberleads.com/

Edit: added quotes.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by MattGaiser on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:14PM (#23096383)
You must now create a $75 a month service for people like yourself who want to know when an email of theirs has been burned. Use his list to sell yours.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by NotSammyHagar on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:33PM (#23096571)
My list of list of list inclusion trumps your second order list. I use my work emails sometimes for conference registrations, those always get burned and I get spam mail immediately. Conf registrations are the worst.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by kugelblitz on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:07PM (#23096909)
I use my own domain and have a catch-all. I usually enter the domain name as the identifier. I.e. here it would be [email protected]
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by NotSammyHagar on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:22PM (#23097068)
I sometimes do the same. It's weird to me that some places immediately sell your email and other orgs do not. Like a graph database conference seemed to lead to a lot of new spam.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by Bnshsysjab on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:41PM (#23097258)
It’s not some conference, it’s some asshole who has the ability to implement that kind of behaviour. I bet loads of people working at that graph conference didn’t agree but either didn’t know or didn’t have a say in the activity.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by thisisbrians on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:48PM (#23096712)
If you use Google Mail (and the email field in the form lets you) you can do <youremail>+<whatever tag you want>@gmail.com to track stuff like this.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by jfkebwjsbx on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:57PM (#23096807)
It works for common spam, but it does not really work for curated lists because they can remove it.

(I think it is also an RFC standard, not just gmail, but don't quote me on this).

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by kcolford on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:52PM (#23097356)
Not an RFC standard but it is a "de facto" standard. Everyone implements it, the config line for it is just commented out on postfix, super easy to use.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by Spooky23 on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:54PM (#23096789)
Spammers aren't dumb -- this gets stripped.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by NullPrefix on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:07PM (#23096906)
Next logical step would be having <youremail>+<secretKey>@gmail.com as the real email and <justyouremail>@gmail.com as spam box.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by sneak on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:51PM (#23097350)
https://anonaddy.me

I use this service a lot.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by drdeadringer on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:36PM (#23097767)
Clearly you like them because you use them a lot.

Anything about them you mislike?

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by NotSammyHagar on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:23PM (#23097077)
That is a great idea. I really want my email hosted some place and that I could write my own "post arrival" simple business logic.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by vageli on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:35PM (#23097200)
> That is a great idea. I really want my email hosted some place and that I could write my own "post arrival" simple business logic.

You can do this in gmail with filters, unless I'm missing something about the use case.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by dorgo on Thursday May 07, 2020 @04:13AM (#23100859)
Maybe it's too early, but I don't get it. If the spammer doesn't strip "+<secretKey>" then you get spam in your real inbox. Btw, what is so secret about the secretKey if you post it on the internet?
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by NullPrefix on Thursday May 07, 2020 @01:07PM (#23105361)
You give different secretKey to each recipient. This way you know who leaked your email.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by Bnshsysjab on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:42PM (#23097269)
I’m pretty sure you can insert or strip periods ‘.’ in gmails too
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by searchableguy on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:05PM (#23096887)
Use temporary email alias? That's what I have been doing.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by AxiomaticSpace on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @09:15PM (#23098550)
I actually think this is a decent idea, so made a quick little landing page to gauge if people are interested. http://unsolicit.me
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by simonebrunozzi on Thursday May 07, 2020 @12:08AM (#23099626)
Even better. Give me a quick one-button "here's a lawsuit against you" as a response for my email being in that list. I'd gladly pay hundreds of dollars to 1) remove the pain and 2) punish a business like this.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by bmiller2 on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @10:24PM (#23099007)
Interested, but your price point is way to high. It’s also pretty easy for me to go to each vendor you mention on the landing page and fill out the opt out request form they are mandated to provide.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by MattGaiser on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @10:42PM (#23099110)
It is too high if you are paying for it personally. As a company benefit for top execs and managers? $25 isn't so bad given that the alternative solution is an executive assistant.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by dorgo on Thursday May 07, 2020 @04:20AM (#23100894)
Is there a service to make quick little landing pages to gauge if people are interested?
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by MattGaiser on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @10:18PM (#23098973)
I can't access the Google form.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by AxiomaticSpace on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @10:46PM (#23099143)
Sorry about that, it should be fixed now
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by thisisbrians on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:31PM (#23096557)
Yo, I would pay for that.

</s>

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by ivanfon on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:18PM (#23096431)
The other project, GitGardener[1] is... not necessarily sketchy, but it's obviously designed to make your Github look "better" than it really is (not that the contribution chart matters for anything, but that seems like what the service is trying to convey).

1: https://www.gitgardener.com/

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by qu4ku on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:39PM (#23096631)
I'm not gonna lie. From the perspective of somebody that commits every day with purpose, this is even more scammy then selling email spam-list. This invalidates my hard work.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by hombre_fatal on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:12PM (#23097539)
Hopefully you have more to show for your hard work than some green squares on your github profile that nobody really cares about.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by mbrameld on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:30PM (#23097716)
It only invalidates your hard work if the purpose of your work is to populate your GitHub commit history.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by gjs278 on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:41PM (#23096647)
your hard work should be finished products not npm module spam of the next left-pad
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by wazanator on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:09PM (#23097518)
My thoughts exactly, if you're holding yourself to commit every single day your commits are probably not meaningful or are so broken up that reading your repos history is a nightmare.

Just because you can commit every day means absolutely nothing if the commits are garbage.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by NullPrefix on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:12PM (#23096963)
They should add a feature that releases daily
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by gonzal00t on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:14PM (#23096984)
It's pretty gross that someone is trying to monetize this. There's actually FOSS version that draws pixel art in your contribution history: https://github.com/gelstudios/gitfiti It's pretty funny, though it doesn't look like its actively maintained anymore. To quote from one of the issue threads:

What better way to demonstrate that the commit graph is a not an indicator of a profile's importance? Hopefully someone who sees gitifi style art in the graph will immediately realize that they should take it with a grain of salt, and instead read the code.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by hombre_fatal on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:13PM (#23097556)
It's not gross. More power to them if they can find someone who finds it worthwhile to pay them $10/mo for it. Or even $10,000/mo.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by gonzal00t on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:52PM (#23097927)
You're right, gross is a strong word. I don't mean to bash a dev who is producing something they are passionate about while at the same time providing a service to others.

What I will say is that that over-incentivizing active commit histories leads to weird market solutions like this one. The problem isn't a product that populates your commit history for a fee, the problem is an over reliance on arbitrary GitHub commits as a proxy for developer talent.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by outworlder on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:06PM (#23096902)
I had a previous employer that started counting commits. Doesn't matter what you do, if you had to spend you whole day interacting directly with a customer(or even at that customer location trying to figure out some issue), nothing mattered. Only the number of commits. Not even the commit size mattered.

So I started doing tiny commits to counter that.

I would gladly use this thing as a f* you before leaving.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by alt219 on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @09:16PM (#23098562)
Your story brought to mind this bit of Apple folklore[0], wherein Bill Atkinson, the author of QuickDraw, reported his weekly LOC as -2,000 after implementing optimizations.

[0] https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Li...

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by realusername on Thursday May 07, 2020 @12:02AM (#23099592)
That's pretty common, my contribution to my current work is surely in the negative as well due to the massive amount of spaghetti code I had to refactor.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by fiblye on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @09:26PM (#23098624)
Oh good lord, that's just filthy.

But man would it be hilarious to grill someone during an interview about this. "Oh wow! You're coding even on holidays! How about we do a quick look at your commits and you can tell us about your progress on some of these projects?"

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by whymauri on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @10:06PM (#23098885)
I know some people who use g̶i̶t̶ ̶g̶a̶r̶d̶e̶n̶e̶r̶ gitfiti to draw on their commit history. Like NES and Atari sprites, like Pacman or Galaga. It's just meant to be a funny subversion of people who take GitHub graphs a little too seriously.

I've never had someone ask about my GitHub and it's on my resume. Probably because it's fairly inactive and I regularly take down projects I'm not proud of.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by lonelappde on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:06PM (#23097482)
What's the benefit?

Is someone getting a interview or a job because they have a trivial useless repo spammed with commits?

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by ukyrgf on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:40PM (#23097809)
I can't imagine anything more suspicious looking than that! I'm guessing the US isn't the target audience here.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by rsweeney21 on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:35PM (#23096594)
There are hundreds of companies, many of them quite large, that do this. ZoomInfo, DiscoverOrg, Hoovers, Data.com, Clearbit, UpLead, etc.

Like it or not, sending unsolicited email is how millions of sales professionals make a living. Before email it was unsolicited mail, voice mail, or phone calls. Outbound sales is an essential part of the world we live in.

Honestly, I'm surprised that this is news to you.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by leephillips on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:47PM (#23096703)
He didn’t say it was new to him, he said it was scummy, and he’s right. Spam is a scourge, whether it is in the form of email, phone calls, or people knocking on my door. “Outbound sales” steals people’s time, attention, disk space, and electricity. It may be an unavoidable (certainly not “essential”) part of our world, but the people who do it are making our world worse.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by cosmodisk on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:09PM (#23096932)
If you call the local bike shop amd try to sell rocket engines,then yes,it is useless. However,there are plenty of good business matching to be done that way. Not all are bad.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by leephillips on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:26PM (#23097117)
Sorry, they are. They are all bad. The bike shop many not be in the market for rocket engines, but they do use wrenches, and pencils, and valve covers. Imagine their phone rings every five minutes, throughout the work day, with people trying to sell these useful things to the bike shop. It's not any better just because the things are useful. If it's me, I'm not going to buy from a cold caller, ever. I already have suppliers. If I need a new supplier, I'm going to find one. You are making the world worse.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by lonelappde on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:10PM (#23097524)
I assume that your business doesn't advertise, yes? Since advertising is a scourge that steals time and attention.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by leephillips on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @08:29PM (#23098226)
When I look for the new supplier for my bike shop, if word of mouth doesn't yield one, I'll probably be guided by some form of advertising. Do you really not understand the difference between making information available to interested customers by advertising, and calling people up, annoying 1000 people to get that one sale? Advertising can be a scourge, but it depends on how you do it. There is no way to spam that is not a scourge.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by shanecleveland on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @11:11PM (#23099290)
You’ve never reached out to a targeted, relevant industry contact in pursuit of a potentially mutually-beneficial endeavor? If so, have those individuals always anticipated your communication in advance?
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by bigtones on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:14PM (#23096380)
There are many many companies that sell email addresses and phone numbers and even cell numbers of executives - it's a huge business. Google "B2B contact database" for a list but DiscoverOrg, ZoomInfo and UpLead come to mind.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by beervirus on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:30PM (#23096542)
"lots of people do it" != "it's ok"
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by artificial on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:14PM (#23096990)
True. Copyright infringement is done on a massive global scale by search engines and everyone uses those.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by beervirus on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:23PM (#23097088)
Is indexing content and providing search results actually considered copyright infringement in any jurisdiction?
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by beardedscotsman on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:59PM (#23097419)
Yes, look at Google publishing news snippets in France
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by lonelappde on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:08PM (#23097507)
On a scale of unicorn to Nazi, helping businesses connect with each other is pretty far from Nazi.

Im pretty sure almost every one on Cyberlead's list sends annoying "drip campaign" emails.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by beervirus on Thursday May 07, 2020 @12:31AM (#23099742)
“At least I’m not as bad as the Nazis” could justify some pretty unacceptable things.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by anitil on Thursday May 07, 2020 @12:28AM (#23099727)
How do these places get this information in the first place? It seems like it wouldn't be economical to get insiders to do it, and guessing [email protected] seems too unreliable
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by balls187 on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:04PM (#23096276)
I'm curious what law do you think is being violated (I'm in the US?)
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by thisisbrians on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:07PM (#23096316)
I'm not an expert, but the FTC definitely regulates how emails can be sent (SPAM laws). I'm not sure if the act of creating a list and selling it without the consent of the emailees is regulated, however.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by baddox on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:48PM (#23096707)
The CAN-SPAM Act doesn’t generally prohibit unsolicited marketing emails, but rather it has various restrictions on the behavior and content of those emails. It’s probably less restrictive than most tech-savvy people think. L

That said, there is a restriction against sending messages to harvested emails, although I’m not sure how that’s defined or what legal precedents there are regarding that.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by LunaSea on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:26PM (#23096507)
In the EU it's against E-Privacy
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by artursapek on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:04PM (#23096876)
And "Git Gardener" is just spamming GitHub to make yourself look busy. I detect a pattern here.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by axguscbklp on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:38PM (#23097229)
I wonder how many people in this thread are upset by Cyberleads selling people's emails and GitGardener making people's Githubs look better... but at the same time commit piracy all the time and make all sorts of excuses for it.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by seph-reed on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:42PM (#23097837)
Scummy is a cheap shot that everyone agreed not to do, but one selfish prick decided they deserved it and now our collective trust for each-other is diminished.

If you pirate something like indie games, music, films... that's pretty blatantly scummy.

Otherwise, go ahead and argue that pirating is lazy, unethical, selfish, etc.... but it's definitely not "scummy."

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by goatherders on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:21PM (#23097622)
"Most" or at least "many." I marvel at the sanctimony around here when it comes to SPAM, particularly because I am 100% certain that if a person works for a company with at least one salesperson then unsolicited outreach is a tactic that is helping pay their salary.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by bishalb on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @10:58PM (#23099204)
As if the email addresses weren't already publicly available on one web page or the other.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by WrtCdEvrydy on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:02PM (#23097451)
Wow, I wonder if we made it on the list after we recently closed a 50M round.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by sokoloff on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @09:03PM (#23098466)
For 0.0001% of the round amount, I suppose you could find out...
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by OrgNet on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @08:32PM (#23098248)
To his defense, a lot of the executives on his list probably buy similar lists to spam a lot more people (endpoint users).
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by lonelappde on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:04PM (#23097470)
Indentation is for short monospace code snippets, not blockquotes.

HN cannot render blockquotes, it breaks the page layout.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by alexsideris on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:11PM (#23096342)
Hey there, Alex here. I completely understand where you are coming from.

I'm not an expert on laws, GDPR, when consent is needed, by whom, etc.

This is a side project that just started gaining a little bit of traction, and I'll certainly look into all the above.

However, the emails I add are publicly available, found on the internet. Not from some leaked database.

I also have prices high in order to keep spammers away and have a small handful of customers. I only have about twenty, and they are targeting different kind of startups.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by Magnets on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:40PM (#23096640)
Work email addresses are considered personal data under GDPR

https://www.cognitivelaw.co.uk/gdpr-issues-do-work-emails-co...

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by Quanttek on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:47PM (#23096701)
However, b2b marking may be allowed under the GDPR. Form your link:

> Recital 47 of the GDPR states that “The processing of personal data for direct marketing purposes may be regarded as carried out for a legitimate interest”. However, if you intend to rely on legitimate interest rather than consent, you will need to apply the following three-part test:

> 1. The purpose test: Are you processing personal data in pursuit of a legitimate interest?

> 2. The necessity test: Is the processing proportionate to achieving your aims?

> 3. The balancing test: Is your legitimate interest overridden by the rights of the person whose data you’re processing?

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by cosmodisk on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:11PM (#23096958)
This is the correct answer for B2B emails in Europe.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by vageli on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:40PM (#23097242)
> I'm not an expert on laws, GDPR, when consent is needed, by whom, etc.

> This is a side project that just started gaining a little bit of traction, and I'll certainly look into all the above.

You are selling a product without even knowing the legality of doing so?

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by beardedscotsman on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @07:02PM (#23097447)
Never heard of ask for forgiveness than for permission?
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by toomanyrichies on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @09:38PM (#23098698)
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. If you are, I applaud the subtlety.

For those nodding in agreement, ask yourself whether this line of thinking would hold up in court.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by abiogenesis on Thursday May 07, 2020 @02:15AM (#23100229)
The GP has a point though. You can't operate a hotel without a license (AirBNB), you can't run a taxi business without a license (Uber), you can't keep other people's money like a bank without a license (PayPal). The list goes on...
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by vageli on Thursday May 07, 2020 @04:37PM (#23108000)
Isn't this exactly survivorship bias?
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by abiogenesis on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:36AM (#23112011)
Not exactly, but mine was a tongue-in-cheek comment anyway.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by ineedasername on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @09:35PM (#23098677)
Move fast & break things at its best.
Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by strgcmc on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @05:31PM (#23096554)
A small suggestion then: why not re-apply the same fundamental technologies and techniques, but to targeting public figures who are perhaps deserving of a little more scrutiny and contact than they're getting?

Rather than facilitating cold-calls to startup founders/leaders (which, let's face it, is generally a waste of their time and which they probably don't deserve that kind of punishment), why not expose the emails/contact-info of executives for bad actors in the marketplace, companies that have recently been sued or charged with crimes or civil complaints (by the SEC/FCC/etc.), companies that have had exposes written about them, etc.?

I'm not saying this will be a more profitable service or anything btw; in fact I'm quite certain it will have much less profit opportunity. But maybe this is something you can do to buy back some goodwill, to counterbalance the profit-seeking and cold-call/spam enabling side of this project.

Re:I got my first $50/mo customer by AQuantized on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @06:19PM (#23097036)
Are you basically advocating facilitating the spamming of a certain section of "morally bad" individuals? I'm not sure this is the kind of advice that will lead to a less controversial business.