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Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by 6nf on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:11PM (#23075644)
Since there's a counter notice, I guess Github will put it back up now? That's the normal DMCA process I think?
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by CKN23-ARIN on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:14PM (#23075667)
Yes, but the DMCA requires them to wait at least 10 business days first. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512#g_2_C
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by Aeolun on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:19PM (#23075692)
Wtf? That’s insane. I can just randomly DDOS projects by submitting DMCA notices?

Edit: Just realized there’s nothing distributed about it.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by CKN23-ARIN on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:22PM (#23075709)
False DMCA notices are, in theory, perjury, but in practice, yes.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by redwall_hp on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:28PM (#23075744)
Have we ever seen a media company prosecuted for perjury, despite copious evidence that they constantly misuse DMCA takedowns to do exactly that?
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by nullc on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:51PM (#23075906)
I received bogus DMCA complaints (over Big Buck Bunny, lol, multiple times), and Google stonewalled me when I tried to find out the identity of the complainant so that I could litigate against them.

I expect situations like that contribute to the lack of response, along with the fact that providers often ignore DMCA complaints or put things back up without following the statutory takedown period.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by tgsovlerkhgsel on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @12:22AM (#23076463)
DMCA or Google's/YouTube's internal copyright dispute resolution process?
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by nullc on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @12:36AM (#23076544)
Google's form letter claimed it was a DMCA complaint, but it might have been confused.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by JumpCrisscross on Monday May 04, 2020 @11:30PM (#23076180)
> Google stonewalled me when I tried to find out the identity of the complainant so that I could litigate against them

Playing devil's advocate, that information may have been protected by NDA. In that case, you'd have to sue Google to divulge the complainant.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by downerending on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:39PM (#23075826)
Not sure anyone ever gets prosecuted for perjury. It's the norm in divorce cases, for example.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by monocasa on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:56PM (#23075941)
And the amount of times I've seen a cop perjure themselves is unreal.

We know that our former Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper perjured himself before congress with impunity as well. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/19/james-clap...

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by downerending on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @12:47AM (#23076614)
Probably shouldn't drip gasoline on this smoldering dumpster fire, but pretty much anyone at a high political level that testifies "I can't remember" is probably committing perjury, yes. Oh well.

https://www.newsweek.com/ken-starr-says-he-almost-charged-hi...

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by saagarjha on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:46PM (#23075867)
Well there was the contempt of court and all with Bill Clinton…
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by colejohnson66 on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:59PM (#23075963)
Why do people say never? It has happened, albeit extremely rarely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_A...
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by sneak on Monday May 04, 2020 @11:49PM (#23076298)
You seem to be conflating a civil countersuit and a criminal prosecution for the crime of perjury.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by Dylan16807 on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @06:21AM (#23078395)
Negligence is not against the DMCA rules, and they can always claim they were being negligent, so no.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by sneak on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:38PM (#23075818)
Not once, no.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by monocasa on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:36PM (#23075804)
Nope.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by khun533 on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @01:35AM (#23076839)
This is why you should never host your open source project on a US server. You're one DMCA notice away from being destroyed, needing a lawyer to counter claim properly, etc. This is insanity.

Git hosted in Europe:

https://codeberg.org/

Anyone know other git hosts outside the US? pls reply

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by lazyjones on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @06:02AM (#23078295)
Perhaps you're right, but perhaps DMCA takedowns are a preferred alternative to what the MPAA does in other situations, like the Kim Dotcom raid in NZ.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by crankylinuxuser on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @11:16AM (#23080910)
Other areas that could be used would be like Tor and IPFS.

Tor is anti-censorship but can be a SPOF.

IPFS provides full identity of machine to the network (internal and external IPs), but is highly redundant and resistant to single attacks.

And IPFS refuses to mainline work for Tor/I2P... So it still spits out every adapter to the world. Yes, even your internal non-routable addresses.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by i_d_rather_read on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @12:49PM (#23082027)
> This is why you should never host your open source project on a US server. You're one DMCA notice away from being destroyed, needing a lawyer to counter claim properly, etc.

This is an excellent takeaway that should be upvoted.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by lostcolony on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:22PM (#23075710)
Out of touch politicians coming up with tech policy in the 90s. Tada!
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by kevingadd on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @04:16AM (#23077704)
Yes, you can, and there's nothing the victim can do about it. Many service providers won't even give you the details of the person who submitted the notice so you can sue them (Google, for example).
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by ocdtrekkie on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:22PM (#23075716)
Presumably, you'd have to succeed in that notice leading to a takedown. The 10 day waiting period only presumably kicked in when GitHub decided the DMCA was valid and actionable.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by URSpider94 on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:30PM (#23075763)
No, Github has no discretion in this process. Their only job is to follow the policy to the letter: provide the notice to the presumed offender and disable content, then forward the counter-notice to the original complainant and re-enable the content in 10 days.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by nullc on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:54PM (#23075928)
> Github has no discretion in this process

That is absolutely untrue. Github could ignore the notice or put the content back up immediately. If they do so, they may lose the DMCA safe harbor for this complaint-- but if there is no credible infringement, that isn't of much consequence.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by lostcolony on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @02:53PM (#23083430)
To do that is to assume all legal risk themselves, such that should a suit be forthcoming, it's against them, and far less likely to be thrown out, even if it's not credible. They're more likely to have to pay legal fees, and have lost legal protections.

The issue isn't their actions, it's that the process requires a 10 day wait, regardless of whether the content is infringing or not.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by KenoFischer on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:38PM (#23075819)
GitHub can decide a takedown notice is facially invalid. Of course if it's later found that they're wrong by a court of competent jurisdiction, they'd be in trouble, so they're likely to be extremely conservative in making this determination.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by URSpider94 on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:49PM (#23075887)
I'm curious to know whether platforms ever even bother to evaluate takedowns, beyond the most basic fact-checking (e.g. the item to be taken down is spelled properly). It seems like one of those cases where the risk of getting it wrong outweighs the benefit of trying to discriminate between good and bad requests.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by colejohnson66 on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:55PM (#23075937)
Doesn’t Google deny DMCA requests sometimes?
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by duskwuff on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @12:11AM (#23076401)
Sometimes. Not as often as they should, but they will at least reject keyword-based delisting requests for obviously innocent web properties like Wikipedia or IMDB (typically because they have an page about the movie that some overzealous "copyright defense" outfit is trying to protect).
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by greglindahl on Monday May 04, 2020 @11:06PM (#23076023)
"Perfect 10" is famous for filing obviously invalid DMCA takedowns and then suing. They've even won, e.g. Perfect 10 vs Yandex.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by ars on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:51PM (#23075904)
They are required to wait 10 days, or that's just their minimum timeframe?
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by URSpider94 on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @12:18AM (#23076447)
The way I read it, they are required to wait 10 days. I think in part to give the complaining party time to go to court if they think there's a true infringement.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by olliej on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:34PM (#23075792)
You’d think so, but not. This part of the DMCA has repeatedly been used with the specific intent of censorship. You force content offline for a potentially important period. For example, though I’m unaware of a case, you could issue a DMCA takedown for the last ten days leading up to an election and there is nothing the victim can do.
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by nullc on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:50PM (#23075891)
Require isn't exactly the right word. If they don't they lose the DMCA safe harbor. If it's really obviously not an infringement there isn't much harm in that.

This is the reason that you can't use weak (or even unambiguous!) copyright infringement to take down popular sites-- their hosts will just forego the safe harbor, perhaps in exchange for indemnification.

Private parties? No such luck.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by ben509 on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:45PM (#23075860)
No, the MPAA is going to sue them now.

To file a counter notice, they must have a "good faith" reason for their dispute.

The MPAA's claim is that Popcorn is used for piracy. IANAL and don't know the case law, so I don't know if it has merit.

But a "good faith" dispute has to address the claim. Their dispute is arguing that they own the code. The MPAA never claimed they don't, that's simply not responding to the substance of their argument.

They should really get an attorney. FFS, at least read the counter notice guidelines; I think they believe they're dealing with Github customer support.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by loeg on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @01:09AM (#23076737)
You're confusing the broader DMCA law and DMCA copyright violation takedown notices specifically. The DMCA copyright takedown notice is to assert to a common provider (Github) that your copyrighted work is currently copied on their platform (Github). As a result, the platform is obliged to immediately assume guilt on the part of their user and take down the content, regardless of evidence.

There was no MPA-owned copyrighted material in the repository the DMCA takedown notice was invoked on. The popcorn developers own the copyright to their code, and no MPA media assets are in the Github repository. The MPA has no copyright claim against the source code on Github.

The MPA could sue the developers for any reason they like, but that is a very different process from DMCA takedown notices. This was an abuse of the DMCA takedown process and the counternotice is wholly correct.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by ben509 on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @08:35AM (#23079318)
I'm not confusing it, perhaps MPAA is.

And if Popcorn had made your point, then they'd have made a good faith counter notice. You're directly addressing the takedown notice by disputing its basis in law.

But a judge can't work off what a party ought to say, they have to adjudicate what they do say.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by loeg on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @12:15PM (#23081635)
> And if Popcorn had made your point, then they'd have made a good faith counter notice. You're directly addressing the takedown notice by disputing its basis in law.

Popcorn did make that point. It's obvious English is not the author's primary language, but can be understood to be making that claim:

> The code is 100 % ours and do[es] not contain any [MPA-owned] copyright material[,] please check again[.]

That's a good-faith counter notice and disputes the legal basis for the takedown.

> But a judge can't work off what a party ought to say, they have to adjudicate what they do say.

What are you reading into the counternotice that makes you believe it isn't in good-faith? (Nevermind that the original takedown from MPA was not in good faith.)

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by ben509 on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @11:11AM (#23167618)
> Nevermind that the original takedown from MPAA was not in good faith.

I think people are reaching that conclusion from prior bad behavior, and maybe courts should consider that.

But I don't see a factual basis for that in their filing. The MPAA establishes legal precedent and harm done to them; they check all the boxes for what a complaint is supposed to be.

Also, this doesn't fall into the patterns of verbose but invalid complaints, e.g. it clearly isn't some takedown they spammed at a random publisher.

> What are you reading into the counternotice that makes you believe it isn't in good-faith?

It's what I'm not reading that means I can't make the case that it is good faith.

The complaint addresses one issue. All I can read in Popcorn's response is that they didn't do something else entirely.

Your argument is simply not what they wrote, and the law requires one to be explicit, which is why legal brief is a contradiction in terms.

Because it's not relevant to the complaint, it's as though they left it blank and hit submit.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by mar77i on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @05:40AM (#23078174)
The argument that BitTorrent had no legal applications is invalid. If people kill each other with guns, why would you put the blame on the gun company?
Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by ben509 on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @09:00AM (#23079530)
Popcorn apparently, if the MPAA is correct about the source code we now can't read, specifically helps users pirate movies.

To avoid cranking the discussion up to 11, let me recast your analogy to, "if people break into houses with crowbars, why would you blame the crowbar company?"

I think under the MPAA's argument, Popcorn is like a crowbar sold with a GPS device that finds unoccupied houses to break into.

Re:Popcorn Time repository unavailable due to DMCA takedown by gpm on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @01:05AM (#23076712)
They have a good faith reason for the counter notice, DMCA notices don't cover contributory copyright infringement. The MPAA committed perjury by submitting this notice.

The MPAA still might still sue them though, DMCA notices don't cover it but copyright law does.

IANAL, this is not legal advice, blah blah blah,