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Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by CalRobert on Thursday April 30, 2020 @12:50PM (#23033016)
Debt is dangerous. Debt, combined with artificial constraints on necessities (like housing) doubly so. We pretty much tell people "it's illegal to build a cheap home" and "btw we can offer you a 30 year mortgage on these nice fancy homes".

It feels a bit like the supply of housing and the supply of debt are both manipulated to make sure people work as hard as possible but without revolting. Living free and clear of debt is extremely hard; the places you can build a home without restriction are generally not near decent jobs, and the places near decent jobs make it more or less illegal to build homes (and those you are allowed to build have to meet labrynthine requirements about outdoor space, parking, density, etc. - certainly the sorts of homes normal people could afford to build with the cash they have aren't allowed in the major metros).

Of course, those who already own homes have a strong incentive to preserve the housing cartel, as it increases the value of their asset (which they can then sell when they retire and move somewhere cheap with no jobs)

So far as I can tell the best path out is remote work and a low cost of living area, but that's open to rather few people and I have a suspicion wages will drop as more people gravitate towards this option and there's more competition.

Not to mention that we explicitly encourage young people to throw away 4 years of their life _and_ take on massive debt before starting. I'm not sure a degree, a pile of debt, and 4 years of opportunity cost are worth more than your wits and a clean slate.

Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by RedBeetDeadpool on Friday May 01, 2020 @09:05AM (#23041582)
> I'm not sure a degree, a pile of debt, and 4 years of opportunity cost are worth more than your wits and a clean slate.

I have to agree, it isn't.

College these days are a business like any other. Its almost more valuable to toss someone into the deep end to learn to think on their own feet rather than have them come out of a college with 4 years of 'experience' thinking they know anything about how life/business/money works. Going to college to get a certification (i.e. law, medicine) might potentially be worth it but I know people who have left those industries as well.

What I think is more unbelievable is that all degrees are 4 year highly structured degrees, which is simply not the case for every job out there. Looking back it all seems so ludicrous, the whole process of being educated in that system. Even video games today are more realistic than this.

Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by foofoo4u on Thursday April 30, 2020 @07:44PM (#23037585)
I'm glad you are touching on this. For those who want to learn more about the prohibitive cost of housing and why it continues to exist, I recommend this episode of EconTalk in which the host interviews urban economics and housing policy expert, Jenny Schuetz: https://www.econtalk.org/jenny-schuetz-on-land-regulation-an... . CalRobert touches on several key points as to why. The episode goes into even greater detail about them.
Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by ip26 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @01:43PM (#23033659)
It's mostly illegal to build a cheap home because they can be deathtraps. I believe house fires used to be one of the top killers in the country; today, firefighters only spend 1% of their time fighting fires.

In any case, property prices in high CoL locations is mainly the cost of the land. I've visited homes in the midwest nicer than almost anything I ever saw in the Bay Area that cost 200-300k.

Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by WWLink on Thursday April 30, 2020 @02:06PM (#23033982)
This is exactly it. I rent a house that costs $900,000 and it’s a 60 year old death trap. Just like most of the other houses in the neighborhood. It was built when LA County was more of a “build baby build!” Place lol.

When you buy a house here it’s more like you’re buying a $900,000 piece of land and getting a free house in the deal. Those houses are practically worthless and a lot of new buyers tear them down and build a new one.

I’d guess that doing that costs a few hundred thousand. But most of the time I see that, the new houses are way better quality. If you wanted to bare minimum meet code, it’d probably still be cheaper to build a new house than to refit the old one.

Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by CalRobert on Thursday April 30, 2020 @02:53PM (#23034629)
Cheap can be achieved by taking a lot with a single family home and putting 8 apartments on it too. Though habitat for humanity houses are sub-100k and hardly death traps.

And land you can build on is expensive because it's scarce, because people vote to make building anything illegal (except places that are already in decline and need residents)

My house is a death trap, for that matter, but it's thatched..

Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by PopeDotNinja on Thursday April 30, 2020 @03:27PM (#23035055)
Debt pretty much hijacked my life. I'm gonna end up OK, but I'll live modestly at best as an old bastard.
Re:Are we too busy to enjoy life? by CalRobert on Thursday April 30, 2020 @04:32PM (#23035755)
Having graduated in 2008 and watching friends and acquaintances be destroyed by their mortgages was an apt lesson. Mortgages turn people in to extremely highly leveraged housing market speculators even if they just need a roof over their head.