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Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by timr on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:17PM (#23023701)
"it's completely unsurprising that people would want to actually research it instead of just declaring all viruses are the same. The only fools here are the people whose impatience leads them to declare absolutes ahead of times instead of taking preventive measures while the research plays out."

This hypothesis ("SARS-Cov19 does not confer immunity") falls roughly under the same category as intelligent design: the claim is so exceptional that it's a priori unlikely to be found true, and laypeople are taking normal scientist hedge-speak and exaggerating the meaning in their heads (e.g. "evolution is just a theory").

There was never really any question to anyone with any serious scientific training that humans would develop some degree of immunity to this virus. That's why people were saying it was more likely to be assay error from the start. The only open question here is how long that immunity might last. Even then, it's fairly clear that short-term (~months to a year) immunity is highly likely.

(Note: I have a doctorate in biochemistry with a specialty in molecular biology, and I've studied virology and immunology. I'm not just tossing off uninformed opinions.)

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by exolymph on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:19PM (#23023733)
> this falls roughly under the same category as intelligent design debate: the claim is so exceptional that it's a priori unlikely to be found true

No. As the person you're responding to pointed out: "The viruses that cause colds, many of which are also coronaviruses, are pretty adept at hitting people throughout their life."

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by amyjess on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:32PM (#23023895)
Immunity != long-term immunity.

You can get temporary immunity that lasts for a year or so and still be able to get reinfected multiple times in your life.

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by mr_toad on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @07:41PM (#23025906)
And there are hundreds of strains and types of viruses that cause colds. Immunity to a rhinovirus serotype will not help with other serotypes of rhinovirus, let alone all the coronavirus strains and influenza viruses.
Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by timr on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:26PM (#23023819)
"No. As the person you're responding to pointed out: "The viruses that cause colds, many of which are also coronaviruses, are pretty adept at hitting people throughout their life.""

Yes. I'm talking about the question of immunity, not whether or not it's possible to get re-infected by new strains of the same virus, or whether or not immunity fades over time. It would be unlikely that this virus didn't confer at least short-term immunity to the host.

The viruses that cause colds primarily re-infect because they mutate at a very high rate. We aren't seeing that with this particular virus.

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by f38zf5vdt on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:27PM (#23023834)
One of the currently popular mutants of the virus has a mutation in the proof-reading exonuclease that causes the virus to mutate much more often than the original strain.

https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10...

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by timr on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:33PM (#23023905)
"that causes the virus to mutate much more often than the original strain."

This is not claimed anywhere in the paper you linked to. They show a non-synonymous mutation in RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, and hypothesized that it could impact drug resistance.

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by f38zf5vdt on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:43PM (#23024031)
My bad, I was misremembering the paper, which mentions the exonuclease's role in fidelity. I meant RdRps. The conclusion was the same. Figure 4 shows quite clearly that the RdRp mutation is associated with further mutations.

> We found that viral strains with RdRp mutation have a median of 3 point mutations [range: 2–5], whereas viral strains with no RdRp mutation have a median of 1 mutation [range: 0–3] (p value < 0.001, Mann–Whitney test). The different distribution between the two groups relative to the number of mutations is statistically significant (Fig. 4).

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by stale2002 on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @07:16PM (#23025724)
Hmmm, I think I am going to list to the other guy, who has a doctorate in viruses.
Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by majormajor on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @05:46PM (#23024774)
> This hypothesis ("SARS-Cov19 does not confer immunity") falls roughly under the same category as intelligent design: the claim is so exceptional that it's a priori unlikely to be found true, and laypeople are taking normal scientist hedge-speak and exaggerating the meaning in their heads (e.g. "evolution is just a theory").

So call the null hypothesis "there will be some level of immunity." But then you see some people testing positive again, and it's reasonable to want to know why. I didn't see people officials leaping to planning for zombie apocalypse "we're all gonna get it over and over forever" scenarios, I saw people saying we needed to dig deeper.

A lot of people in this discussion are refuting a straw man idea that everyone had decided "clearly you get no immunity at all".

Re:Recovered virus patients retest positive due to 'dead' vi... by stale2002 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @02:15AM (#23027930)
> But then you see some people testing positive again, and it's reasonable to want to know why.

I have been following the statements of experts ever since this myth made headlines.

And despite what the headlines said, the opinions of experts has always been clear. That being that these "reinfections" were the result of dead virus material being detected.

So, no it is not reasonable to have ever believed this, if you had listened to the experts.