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Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @06:01PM (#23012666)
My conspiracy theory hat comes out every time a large US company seems to stand up against the government for the privacy of their users and wins. I always assume the company secretly gave the government what they asked for, and the government agreed to play along for marketing purposes.

I suppose that the boring truth is that Facebook just used it's vast financial resources to protect itself in a way that lavabit never could

Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by jauer on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:17PM (#23013774)
> I suppose that the boring truth is that Facebook just used it's vast financial resources to protect itself in a way that lavabit never could

This is the accurate take :)

Facebook, like Google, was very unhappy about the wholesale tapping of cables revealed in the Snowden docs and rapidly moved to encrypt all the things formerly assumed safe/inscrutable.

If you give an inch to a government you then have to deal with every other government wanting their inch too. The easiest way to deal with this is to vigorously fight every request from a government.

You can't do a secret backdoor that bypasses this because it will get discovered eventually and then same problem occurs.

Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by gowld on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @06:54PM (#23013114)
Why would that be so?

Why wouldn't they just skip the annoying charade and the anti government precedent, and just give over the info secretly in the first place, least work for everyone?

And don't you think at some point one of the retired engineers or execs would leak the truth?

Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by cryptonector on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:55PM (#23014783)
"Hey Joe, look at the news! If we use Messenger, we can't get wiretapped!"

That's a limited ruse because at some point evidence has to be entered into the record at trial, and if the fact that the government could reach Messenger after all came out, this scheme wouldn't work again. Of course, often investigators can back-reconstruct evidence that they can present -- and if in some case they can't, well, maybe next time. Other times trial evidence might not even be a goal. So a limited ruse, but not that limited.

Is it plausible? I think so. Is it likely? No idea.

Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by seph-reed on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @06:28PM (#23012907)
The former seems so much more likely to me. Probably because my German teacher had us watch ["The Lives of Others"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others) and at this point it would be absolutely insane to imagine that the obsession with power that exists in the government would fail to find a way to read data that's literally stored on someone else's computer where you could never tell if it's been read. Seems like a no brainer, but without proof most people would rather just call it a grey area. Which is a fine enough narrative. Doesn't change much either way.
Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by kyuudou on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:58PM (#23022133)
Thanks for fitting "Das Lieben der Anderen" into a comment thread! One of my favorite movies of all time. I think the Stasi would be thrilled with the amount of power they could have nowadays. May all FB and gov employees be the Good Man.
Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by duncan_bayne on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @06:44PM (#23013018)
Except that we have proof, at least as far as the US Government is concerned. Snowden provided us with proof in abundance that they will "find a way". How anyone can consider this a gray area in 2020 is beyond me.
Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by ggggtez on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @06:52PM (#23013083)
This comment thread really is nonsense. So Facebook and the government are secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records while secretly they cooporate the whole time and the case was never actually tried? What planet are you on?

And the proof is Snowden, because... ???

Or are you all just agreeing you have your own conspiracy theories, and aren't directly commenting on what each other are saying?

Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by dang on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:43PM (#23014715)
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, regardless of how wrong other commenters are or you feel they are. Lashing out like this convinces no one, and only discredits your case—which, if you know more of the truth than others, is a bad thing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by dexen on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:15PM (#23013310)
>secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records

A simple & plausible scenario: a governmental agency requests Facebook conducts a broad surveillance sweep. Facebook resists for obvious reasons, goes to court. Somebody at the middle level of one talks to somebody at the middle level of the other, figure out what the agency really wants - a small, well specified chunk of data - which gets requested separately & promptly delivered. Having gotten enough data now, the agency lets the original, big case falter simply by limiting the efforts and expenditures.

That's not even conspiracy, that's just a bunch of people figuring out how to quickly get done with their mundane responsibilities. #BanalityOfEvil

Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by ycombi3 on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:13AM (#23015617)
And this is how it's done unfortunately.
Re:The ACLU wants to know why Facebook beat a 2018 wiretap case by duncan_bayne on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:34PM (#23013467)
> So Facebook and the government are secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records while secretly they cooporate the whole time and the case was never actually tried? What planet are you on?

That's, ummm, not my point at all, and I honestly don't see how you took it from what I wrote.

What I meant was just that Snowden's revelations revealed a bunch of 'alternative' methods, beyond a court-ordered wiretap. Collusion, cable tapping, shipping intercepts ... all seem to have been on the table for the NSA and GCHQ.

My point was just that I'd be very surprised if this court result prevented the type of interception that was being requested.