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Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by joecool1029 on Saturday April 25, 2020 @08:15PM (#22982907)
I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag after they defeated them. It makes about as much sense as flying the anarchist's flag while serving in a state military.

I'm wondering as well if the branches use any of the conquered peoples' flags, like various Native American nations. I couldn't find anything on the web about it.

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by marktangotango on Saturday April 25, 2020 @08:32PM (#22983021)
> I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag

The present article gives no instances of Marine Corp units flying the confederate flag in an official capacity, do you have sources for this? The article is about banning its display such as via tattoos, pickup truck rear windows, apparel like hats and shirts by marine Corp members. Generally these thing are only enforced on base or during deployment. I do know some state run military schools had a history of displaying the confederate flag, but they’re not Federal institutions.

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by joecool1029 on Saturday April 25, 2020 @09:43PM (#22983501)
Apologies, I had conflated the flying of Confederate streamers formerly with the US Army and Navy[1] and later (and still currently) with various state national guards[2]. Also a decent blog post on the topic: https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-th...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal

[2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confedera...

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by barryparr on Saturday April 25, 2020 @10:22PM (#22983763)
The Army has at least ten bases named after Confederate officers:

https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2018/10/03/ten-army-b...

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by jariel on Saturday April 25, 2020 @09:27PM (#22983408)
One of the poorest imaginable ways to frame the subject.

'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces.

Totems, elements of the local culture, flags are more common than not even in Colonial regalia.

Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by joecool1029 on Saturday April 25, 2020 @10:29PM (#22983814)
> Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

How else should they be framed? It's a fact that they were a failed traitorous rebellion and their cause was the defense of the institution of slavery. There's nothing to be proud about.

>'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces.

I brought it up because the US conquered native lands and natives serve in the US military today with a semi-autonomous identity (native nations vs. states). They weren't traitors that originally had an obligation to serve in the US military but rather occupied and assimilated as a former foreign power. With that being said: Do they get to fly streamers for their battles from before they were part of the US? It's a legitimate question to which I was asking for a legitimate sourced answer. It's also relevant since there's a large overlap with those later battles and the Civil War.

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by Alekhine on Saturday April 25, 2020 @10:53PM (#22983938)
We've been calling the Confederates rebels since the Civil War, and we're not going to stop. Though you could make the legal argument that States have the right to secede, since the Constitution does not expressly forbid it, and any rights not forbidden are left to the States. But we didn't care at the time. Lincoln didn't give a damn about their right to secede, he wanted to preserve the Union. Who can blame him? It was expedient to call them traitors, because you couldn't really motivate people to fight for the cause of abolishing slavery back then. Not large armies of ordinary people, anyway.

So yes, we denied them their right to secede because we didn't care to have the country split in half. I'm glad we did, because they were slavers. Fuck them and their 'states' rights'.

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by jariel on Sunday April 26, 2020 @02:32AM (#22985037)
Holy camole I'm not making an argument about 'states rights' and definitely not for the 'Confederate Flag' or for the 'South' - I don't care about any of those things - I'm talking about the term 'Traitor' as historically objective terminology.
Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by Libeste on Sunday April 26, 2020 @05:04AM (#22985707)
When has it not been considered treason?
Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by jariel on Sunday April 26, 2020 @08:21AM (#22986618)
So the American revolution was just Treason then, right?

Is how we should plainly describe it in the history books?

And since the movement to abolish slavery in the Empire was already afoot, and slavery was abolished outside the US (within the Empire) shortly after the American revolution - and - George Washington & Co. supported slavery, supported the wide expansion of the slave trade to the point wherein the US was the last place in the 'modern world' to abolish slavery nearly a century later ...

Should we commonly refer to Americans as 'Traitors' and Slavers and ban the Stars and Stripes as well? There are definitely a few who would support that.

History is complicated and has many perspectives. Flags mean different things to different people for different reasons at different times.

Obviously, the Confederate flag is complicated and divisive enough that it shouldn't be used relating to public office especially at the federal level. But to simply imply the Southern states were merely 'Traitors' (as some would have it), would be to use too narrow a lens and misrepresent that part of history. I don't think anyone in 2020 is going to miss out on the act it was largely about slavery.

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by Libeste on Sunday April 26, 2020 @01:15PM (#22988547)
Yes.

Yes. Maybe you wouldn't have misunderstood it.

Which version of the Stars and Stripes?

Sure, flags mean different things to different people.

No, that doesn't make it complicated, it didn't stop other flags from being banned.

Re:Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag by Gibbon1 on Saturday April 25, 2020 @11:09PM (#22984020)
> Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

Begin with 40% of the confederacy was black.