While this was on a different level from other relationships that have faded away, it made me think about those ones as well, especially pertaining to work. A few companies ago, I was at a rocket ship of a startup and had some friendships that were as intimate and fun as any that I had since college. I sorely missed losing out on that camaraderie. I knew that professionally, it was the time to move on. But, it didn't make it any easier to leave the friends I had there behind. And it hurt to see folks that I thought I'd retain as close friends not end up that way after I left.
Luckily, after there (as with previous companies), I really lucked out and still managed to retain a couple friendships that I remain grateful for, now more than ever. I now realize this is just the way it is. I felt the same way at the end of college, and at the end of every job I've had. Sometimes, I need a reminder that it's okay for the friendships I've had to be in the past. It doesn't mean there was anything wrong with them. If they were going to hold place in the present rather than the past, then it would be that way. But that they are not does not mean they need to be critiqued, or analyzed, or critiqued. Perhaps, as you remind me, they just need to be thought of, reminisced of, and cherished and appreciated for what they were.
Thank you.
Isn't that how most people form friends normally though? Through a shared experience? Especially a tough or formative one? Friends you meet at school, in your first year at uni, in bootcamp, on a sports team, these are how most people meet their life-long friends.
My parents are super social to the point of inviting over colleagues for dinner regularly, but I think they're also so social (and worked for nonprofits that are more like family) that they simply have so many options that the ones they pick are much closer work-friends that often last decades.
Other people really do just want to go home and do their own thing. As long as no one is rude, there's room for both.
I find that after spending that many hours with work friends I rarely want to spend extra time with them when I could spend that time connecting with existing friends I haven't seen in a while who I'm already very close to. Balance.
I've rarely had a work friend turn into a real friend though, but I'm also totally happy with that. I need breaks from people and don't want to get sucked into the work as life mindset. I'd rather meet new people at... pick a hobby. Dancing, singing, karate, whatever. That's how I make new friends, through hobbies rather than work because work friends dominating my social life feels incredibly unbalanced.
One draw back of that is my professional network is limited as well, in times of economic decline a robust professional network is often the key between employment and not
That's all professional relationship building though, I truly don't think those people are ones she'd invite to a movie or over for dinner. Maintaining professional relationships does take constant low key attention though, if they only hear from you when you need something it's not a good look.
I've also worked at a family company. They may claim you're "family" too, but that's just marketing hype. The truth is the family members will always be better compensated than you for doing far less. And when tough times come, you will take a hit before any family member.
Otherwise there's no space for dialogue. I believe this is the norm.
Values though? I can't see that being the norm unless your shared interest is politics, religion, or social order/dynamics.
I have people with shared interests added as "friends" on facebook, but my actual friends are those with whom I have some common ground - even if it's something as abstract as the shared belief that nothing is ever "100% done" or that politics is just a game of appearances and one shouldn't get too invested emotionally in them.
This was a mistake I made in my 20s. No, values are not interests. Values are things like "would this person stab me in the back, given opportunity?". That can happen in sport, job, anywhere.
From long-term perspective, just like you lose most work-friends when you change your work, you lose most of your hobby-friends when you change a hobby or simply not have enough time for the hobby anymore. Values seem to stay for much longer time.
Different from interests, hobbies, or shared experiences that provide the basis for most friendships.
Flip side, you don’t have to be besties with your colleagues. Enjoying time with them while you’re colleagues is an end upon itself. You’ll statistically have about a dozen jobs in your life, which’ll bring in close to 100 colleagues into your life. Chances are you can’t and won’t remain friends with all of them, and that’s ok too.
It's not impossible to do, I know plenty of people who make real friends at work. But it takes intent to make it work like any human relationship, invite them to dinner, go to movies, play video games, etc. Go overboard to get over the activation barrier but be selective because you can't do that with two dozen people at once.
Next job was a lot more family people and we rarely went for drinks together. I am not really in touch with them any more (perfectly nice people but the bonding never happened).
Of course they didn't go drinking, they had to get home to take care of kids. Or, like me, they don't drink. They might still invite over other families to go hiking or camping or maybe even know other parents from school.
Not saying that was necessarily happening, but now that many more of my friends have kids (I don't) I see them do this all the time. They can't really hang out without a way to distract their kids. Board game nights are much more likely to connect than drinking.
I don't think that's a good idea. When people elsewhere on this thread have commented that back in the day people's main opportunity to make friends was at work, they didn't mean that work gives them opportunities actively but rather that it gave them personally the opportunity to personally create a relationship with a coworker.
Agreed? There's a huge difference between the relationship you create by inviting a work friend over to your home for dinner and video games (or going to a bar even) and the relationship created by the "team" going to a "team building activity" together. Don't rely on work to provide the context to make a friend, but it's fine to rely on work to provide an opportunity to make a friend.
Within reason and assuming good actors, etc. I probably wouldn't share every detail of my personal life with work-friends and certainly older generations did not. I suspect the two are related; you have to be more guarded with work friends because social vulnerability can be very risky in a work environment. My mother didn't talk about her disability with work-friends much, only the work-friends she'd invite over for dinner. I share about my condition much more because I want and expect even "just" work-friends to understand and accept my limitations. The story I hear is that it didn't use to be at all safe to be vulnerable like that with colleagues.
Good colleagues are very important. They are the people you are going to spend with half of the time when you are not sleeping. You will spend more time with them than with anyone else, including the people who live with you. So how you interact with them can make your days pleasant or miserable for the following few years.
Even after you leave the job, if you stay in contact (like, having a lunch together once in a year), you can give each other good professional advice, recommend good jobs, and provide a reference. That can make a big difference, too.
So it is definitely NOT "all in vain". However...
The fact that you spend so much time together and face the same problems, this will all instantly disappear the very moment you leave the job. (It may also evaporate gradually if they leave the job sooner. This part is completely outside your control.) So leaving the job means losing it all, but staying in the job is not a guarantee of keeping it. Better not to get attached. (Being attached also weakens your negotiating position against your employer.) This is the opposite of friendship, when you expect your friends to be there for you especially when you face important changes in your life.
Friends, you choose freely. Colleagues, you get randomly assigned. It is important to be able to have good relationships with people you get randomly assigned. But this is completely different from friendship, where you choose people depending on how much you click with each other, and on the potential for the relationship to grow. If you find out that someone is only capable of a shallow level of friendship, you recognize they are a waste of time, and you replace them with a better friend. When the person happens to be your colleague, you continue to be polite to each other, understanding that this is the level you can't get beyond, but it is still valuable to keep this level. You have different expectations for friends and colleagues. With friends, the relationships start organically, and they grow over time. With colleagues, the relationships start artificially, and they mostly remain at the same level. With friends, you have an emotional connection; you take risks and make yourself vulnerable, in hope of making your connection deeper. With colleagues, you behave professionally, in hope of staying at the same level indefinitely.
(Now, there are situations like having a beer with your colleagues after the work, or a teambuilding organized by your company. They blur the lines; in case of teambuilding it is intentional brainwashing. Don't get confused. Relax and enjoy the situation, but don't forget that you have actual friends outside your work who are not with you now; remember to get in contact with them later.)
Sometimes, you accidentally get randomly assigned a colleague who is actually a friend material. Someone, who you would become friends with, if instead you would have met somewhere else; someone whom you would remember and try to meet again. If the feeling is mutual, great. But it is easy and perhaps tempting to overestimate this. You will probably find the true answer only after you (or the other person) leave this job.
That being said, what do you actully expect when spending time with work peers? It's supposed to be just relax after work. If it does not "spark joy" then just don't do it. If it does, then do not expect any other value. Friendship is not about how much you can get from others.
This one hit hard. It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together. Once that was gone, we actually had very few things in common.
Not that I don’t have any former colleagues I’m close with, but the ratio of kept/lost has to be in the 1/10 range or lower.