Listened to "Daily Ritual: How artists work" recently and the most common pattern seemed to be, work intensely for 2-4 hours in the morning, most people being finished by 1-2 in the afternoon, then go out for a long walk before doing light admin stuff in the mid-late afternoon.

It's also been my observation that this is how I actually want to work. I feel ready and able to tackle anything first thing in the morning, but past 1 o clock nothing I produce will be that much good and my productivity will be a shadow of what it was in the morning.

I work freelance so that's how I work nowadays, it feels like it comes naturally in a way that no other method I've ever tried does including pomodoro.

I think each one have to find where those 2-4hours lies.

For me they start between 5pm and 6pm.

I can spend the day in front of my screen doing (almost) nothing or admin stuff. And then it kicks on and I’m (a lot more) productive.

The problem is that it’s around the time I have to take care of the kids when my wife can’t...

Weird! I'm nearly the same - I can sit in front of my machine for most of the day, completely unproductive, and then in the late afternoon it's like there's a switch in my brain and suddenly I can work without any distractions at all. What really botheres me is that I finish nearly every day thinking "I'm just going to do exactly what I've been doing now, but first thing in the morning, and then have the afternoon and evening free", and it almost never happens. I just can't find the right focus/frame of mind until after lunch. It's extremely rare that it happens.

>I think each one have to find where those 2-4 hours lies.

True, and I don't think it has anything to do with a personal biological<->time of day connection. The time of day that works for you is probably related to the contexts of what happen before and after in your day. The events which lead you into one mindset or another. So you could change your day to change what time of day it is, as well. You aren't "stuck."

I often seem to experience these productivity bursts when I know I have to leave work soon, regardless of time of day.

What about afternoon/evening people?

I seem to have a pathological inability to get much done before midday/afternoon/evening/night (depending on severity)

I wonder if this is a belief I'm self-reinforcing by identifying as an "evening coder". I mean, I doubt there's a physiological reason for this. It's probably a matter of this being a habit of a lifetime that I've never fought back against hard enough.

> It's probably a matter of this being a habit of a lifetime that I've never fought back against hard enough.

You could try what worked for me:

Make a list of 2-5 healthy habits or routines that don't naturally fit into your current rhythms. Things like being an early riser, going to the gym in the morning, finishing all of your work before 5PM, and so on.

Then, pick 2-week periods to try them out, one at a time. For example, I always thought I was a night owl and and had delayed sleep phase syndrome until I made a deliberate effort to go to bed at 9PM every night for 2 weeks straight. The first few days were painful, but it's easy to push through when you're only looking at 2 weeks maximum. After those 2 weeks, I realized I'm a much happier, healthier, and more productive person if I go to bed at 9PM and wake up at 5AM, but it doesn't happen naturally.

Alternatively, you may discover that a routine doesn't work for you, but you're not losing much by trying it out for 2 weeks.

On average, you have about 4000-4500 weeks in a life time. It's worth taking some of those weeks to run easy experiments that could pay dividends for years to come.

There were certainly artists in that book who could only work in the evening or at night, it's just the most common pattern seemed to be the one I described which also happens to work for me. That being said there were times in my life where I would only get productive at 11pm till 2-4 in the morning.

I wonder if there's an age component. I read that same book and I remember (maybe erroneously) that the artists who worked best in the morning were older, whereas the artists who worked better at night were younger and oftentimes addicted to stimulants.

That more or less describes my working patterns over time, too, including the addicted to stimulants part. When I was young, my most productive time of day was after everybody fell asleep. Now, it's before everybody wakes up.

> but past 1 o clock nothing I produce will be that much good and my productivity will be a shadow of what it was in the morning.

This used to be me until 4 years or so ago when I started skipping breakfast.

I love breakfast, but not because I feel hungry in the morning so once I discovered this I started skipping breakfast.

I'm fully convinced however that a good number of people would become more productive if they did eat breakfast.

FTR: I often wake up extremely early (often before 04 for days in a row) and can hardly get anything except extremely simple work done after 2100 (even back when I used to sleep more normal hours.)

I feel the same, just with the times flipped around. For me the morning is great for small random/admin type tasks. Even reading a research paper or spending some time learning about something I need to do/use.

In the afternoon is when I can concentrate for 2-4 hours and do some intense work. Take a break after that, and iron out anything small before calling it a day.

I read the book and I could't find any pattern at all; all these "geniuses" did whatever worked for them.

I’ve had success doing somewhat the opposite. I usually am not fully awake until 9/10 am, even when I wake up at 7:30/8. So I do my light admin stuff in the morning, eat lunch (I eat lunch at 11:30 usually), go on a walk or do something not work, and then do 2-4 hours of intensive work.

> ..."beat" procrastination by adopting the pomodoro technique.

There are six steps in the original technique:

1. Decide on the task to be done.

2. Set the pomodoro timer (traditionally to 25 minutes).

3. Work on the task.

4. End work when the timer rings and put a checkmark on a piece of paper.

5. If you have fewer than four checkmarks, take a short break (3–5 minutes), then go to step 2.

6. After four pomodoros, take a longer break (15–30 minutes), reset your checkmark count to zero, then go to step 1.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique

I don't really find mental fuel to be a thing[1]. In fact, I find the opposite. The more discipline I instill, the more discipline I have. Each block of discipline makes the next that much easier. That includes discipline over procrastination.

[1] Of course there is general fatigue, but this is different from only being able to focus on something for a couple of hours/day or not being able to start something at all.

Of course everyone is different, but there are at least some studies the does lend credence to the "willpower as a finite resource" theme.

As someone else mentioned, that study has come under fire. It's also one I never agreed with because for me personally it wasn't true. I have always found things like discipline and willpower to be more about inertia than anything else.

If I wake up and start playing a video game or eating crap, that inertia carries through the day. The reverse is also true, if I get up, workout, and start being productive that will carry through the whole day. Once I realized this about myself I adjusted my whole schedule around. Instead of after work workouts, I moved them to the morning. Instead of staying up late, I get up earlier and naturally go to bed earlier. So instead of wake up and chill and ease into my day, I wake up and go. And, that go carries through the entire day.

The way I look at it, you can push past your ordinary daily soft limit in this area, but there will be a cost, and the more you disrupt your routine in pursuit of your goals, the higher that cost will be-- past a certain point (likely different for everyone), you will get diminishing returns & risk of a breakdown goes up.

The balance to strike here, I think, is to give your mind & body a chance to recuperate before you get too close to that breaking point. Or phrased another way, look at 'pushing yourself into a second wind' as a critical tool for certain situations, but one to be used sparingly (preferably when you have some open calendar spots ahead).

There's only really one study that backs up the "willpower is finite" thing, and it has failed replication.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-way-you-think-about-w...

I've come to a different conclusion. I used to think it was a "fuel" problem until I realised that if I moved onto some other non work related task that I was interested in, which could include programming, all of a sudden fuel wasn't an issue. For me it came down to motivation and interest with "mental fuel" rarely being the deciding factor. I manage to conjure up fuel when I'm sufficiently motivated by a problem. Obviously this might not be the case for everyone and I have hunch it is related to ADD behaviour I exhibit (self diagnosed).

Tricking my brain into investing into the outcome of work I am not interested in takes up most of my time now trying to get over procrastination. And of course I have a deadline today and I'm writing this message on HN... but like any good developer that needs some pressure to work I've got the plates all spinning for now.

> but also recognise that your brain/body only has so much "fuel" each day ...

My experience is similar to yours, and I would also add that that "fuel" grows if you maintain the effort throughout the days/weeks. But some of the days you'll have more fuel, others less, just to the best you can (I struggle a lot to keep that balance, not easy at all..)

The Pomodoro technique has been hugely valuable to me over the years. So much so that I recently built a web app for it that doubles as a work log with social accountability:

https://timmytimer.com

I successfully used the pomodoro method during my PhD. I just couldn't bring myself to do the really boring stuff like the nth iteration of corrections on a section of writing. I developed some features for emacs so I could have my pomodoro timer right there at all times. It also means I have logs of exactly what I worked on and for how long.

But by far my most productive times are when the problem is clear and I feel compelled to solve it. I've always thought that I'd be overall a much more useful person if I could hack my brain to be compelled to do what needs to be done rather than whatever random thing has taken my interest.

Good insights. I've also noticed a cap on my productive output, but I find that it's elastic. I've been putting time into learning to analyze my self-state and predict what kind of day it's going to be. I've gotten good results by choosing to work on productive days and choosing not to work when my reserves are low.

pomodoro also works for me, I've had weeks of doing almost nothing, after I started simple 25 min bits with pauses, for some reason it can go on forever.

Any mobile or desktop app you use specifically for this that you'd recommend?

I find that there are so many that you have to just use one for a while and see if you like it (kind of meta, that).

The biggest differentiators are the UI, configurability (of times, alarms, etc.), and for me, oddly, the ability to have/not have a "ticking" sound while it's going. I like it to keep me motivated, others hate it and prefer music. Sometimes I use both.

I use https://github.com/michaelvillar/timer-app and TextEdit to write my pomodoros for every day. Take 5 minute breaks, and a big 15-30 minute break, pomodoros of size 25-30 minutes (25 mins get prolonged a little if I need to stop in a wrong moment, usually just write a note what I was doing and force myself to take a pause). I end up doing ~12 pomodoros a day.

I don't like long stretches of work, it might be just me but I end up obsessing over unnecessary details the longer I concentrate on some problems, if I take a forced pause and then continue, I seem to use less time for the same amount of work.

I've been using https://pomelloapp.com/

To be honest, that is my main problem.

I know that i can develop much longer then i'm actually doing.

The biggest issue for me with procrastination is not pushing every single thing until i really have to do it but that my idea of myself feels that i can do more than i'm doing.

I spend plenty of hours coding from 16-6 when i was 16 and learning php. I have plenty of experiences where i did not just stop.

The most visible to me is it with something new like a new job or task: First few weeks in a new job is great. I do a lot, i'm quite productive.

And the other thing is: If i really only can do 2-4h real development and then i need a break, i definitly don't need a break of 20h. So how to get back to it without that 20h break?

> I think I've successfully managed to "beat" procrastination by adopting the pomodoro technique.

Says one of the first commenters. Are you sure what you are doing here now is not procrastination?

I'm not EU/US based. Work finished 4 hours ago. I don't have social media. I don't watch TV. I've walked the dog, I made dinner and ate. I took literally 10 mins to see what was on HN and this was the first link. I'm going to jump into bed and read a book in about an hour.

Maybe he's taking his pomodoro break?

Having had some success with Pomodoro, I'll say that it's dangerous to spend your break (really only 5-10 mins) surfing the web or checking your phone.

What happens in my experience, is that you come across a video you really want to watch, or come across a comment that you absolutely must respond to; perhaps that's what happening to me right now!

Before you know it, you've spent 30 mins away from work, and completely lost the momentum and concentration that was accumulating via the pomodoro. Now you have to use more mental energy to get back to that state.

I used to think that eventually you should reach a flow with whatever you're doing and for this, taking a break after a pomodoro seems not effective ...

There is an alternative method called Flowtime: https://zapier.com/blog/flowtime-technique/ where you focus on a task until you feel you need a break (I think it is still crucial that you don't let yourself get distracted during this).

Another alternative is to treat the 25m as a minimum time in Pomodoro: if you are tired or have reached a natural break point for your task then stop. If you're in the flow continue.

You may want to enforce a maximum amount of time for health reasons (e.g. to get up from your chain every now and then).

"Another alternative is to treat the 25m as a minimum time in Pomodoro: if you are tired or have reached a natural break point for your task then stop. If you're in the flow continue."

This. The pomodoro technique has helped me greatly, but the time limit is really just about motivation to get started (in my case). It helps by allowing me to tell myself: "You can do this... you can do anything for 35 minutes (the time limit I prefer)."

However, it is very often the case that once the timer expires, I just turn off the alarm and remain focused on my work. Sometimes my session lasts up to an hour or more. And of course, at other times, I finish the task I wanted to work on before the timer expires because the level of focus/flow I was able to achieve enabled me to finish the task more quickly than I thought.

My story is just one, of course, but I highly recommend at least trying the pomodoro method or some variation of it, just to see if you have similar success.

I've found the 25 minute timer to have multiple benefits:

1. If I'm struggling to start, telling myself I only need to spend 25 minutes on it gets me started

2. I can pretty easily hold myself back from checking slack/email or context-switching when the block is 25 minutes - I can always peek at messages after to make sure nothing important happened.

3. It gives me a target - frequently there is something concrete I think I can _complete_ in 25 minutes, and that gives me motivation to push to get it done by then. If it goes a little over, that's fine

4. Because these periods of 25 minutes are really intense, I can't do them back-to-back all day. I have found switching to an interesting YouTube video for 5 minutes during a break (and trying to completely rest the brain during this time) re-energizes me more quickly, and lets me do more pomodoros without needing to stop for a while

The guy who first published the technique documented that it is effective (where effective means 'more productive'), and countless others have replicated his finding that they, too, found pomodoro to be effective. Don't let your own speculation overrule actual evidence. That's what start procrastination.

Sometimes I have to make sure I am not switching tasks during breaks, even to something like reading the news. Get up, step away from computer, refill cup of water, bathroom break, etc, but not switching to something that would actually redirect your brain elsewhere and break the flow. Ideally it makes it more sustainable.

For me, productivity killers are PRs. This ruins my flow so much. Side projects I can code forever, but at work being stuck having to wait for reviews and trying to juggle what I can do without having to wait for the first review kills me.

do you use any tools for pomodoro? Or just the stopwatch on your phone?

I have to switch between various machines so I use my phone. Then I find any app to be overkill and limiting at the same time. I recommend using a timer and your phone's timer will do. Set timers for 25mins, 5 mins and 15mins and go!

I use cheap timers like these (search for the best seller with free shipping in your country) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32930941458.html

They are magnetic, start the countdown at the given time (like 25 min and they remember it), the beeper is very soft and you can't procrastinate exploring hundreds of features.