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Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by runeks on Monday April 06, 2020 @03:55PM (#22797160)
> In the background global warming is a much greater threat to human life and has the exact same dynamic with the exact same players.

No, global warming has a very different dynamic. With a virus, if you do the right thing and protect yourself, you’re more likely to survive. With global warming, if you get a lot of people to emit less CO2, you might just end up making CO2 emissions cheaper for everyone else.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by VWWHFSfQ on Monday April 06, 2020 @03:58PM (#22797179)
That's a very reductive and defeatist way to view the problem, and potential solution. The reality is there is no silver bullet. Emissions have to be reduced by means of an energy revolution. Sure, some will benefit in the short term. But everyone will benefit in the long term.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by hanoz on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:26PM (#22799271)
It's not reductive and defeatist to point out that the global warming issue has a tragedy of the commons aspect, on both personal and national levels, which could hardly be more different to the current pandemic.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by marcosdumay on Monday April 06, 2020 @05:21PM (#22798024)
Hum... The GP seems to be talking about Global Warming denialists, and the dynamics of how they communicate with people. This one is the same.

But yes, Global Warming has the bad quality that it is completely not obvious how to solve it. There is an entirely different dynamic at the side that accepts it for settling on a solution... and what is more disturbing, R&D and science are mostly neglected there too, even by the academics so prone on applying science to predict the problem.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by lutorm on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:11PM (#22799773)
It's entirely not obvious how to best solve the coronavirus situation either, though.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by marcosdumay on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:49PM (#22800212)
On the short term, I will disagree. And we are all living on the short term now. The only thing that works is isolating people.

On the long term, it's even worse, nobody seems to have any idea what to do. But we are doing the opposite than we are doing with Global Warming, we are heavily funding the kinds of research that may solve the problem. All of those kinds.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by sjg007 on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:21PM (#22798459)
Umm it is pretty obvious how you “solve” global warming and that is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by dagurp on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:48PM (#22799067)
It's not obvious how to do that
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by mwarkentin on Monday April 06, 2020 @11:21PM (#22800068)
Apparently with a global pandemic. /s
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by hanspeter on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:43AM (#22800598)
Not on a global scale but on a national it's very obvious.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by marcosdumay on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:26PM (#22805361)
The only thing that matters is the global result, and the only policies that we know how they work at global scale are the ones that we know that they do not work.

There is an incredible lack of actual social and political scientists discussing those policies, and the few economists that are there seem focused on hitting known bad policies (what is easy to understand, since politicians keep pushing them).

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by hedora on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @03:49AM (#22801185)
If you catch coronavirus, you’re roughly twice as likely to die this year as if you didn’t (this is true for most age groups).

Most people have a vanishingly low probability of dying in the next 12 months. They shouldn’t care much if they get it or not, unless they’re worried about the welfare of others.

This seems very similar to CO2 to me, except that global warming affects younger people more, and coronavirus primarily affects older people.

It saddens me that our leaders won’t act to prevent a planetary disaster that will that affect their children and all future generations, but are willing many more times the resources on a comparatively minor crisis that will last at most a year.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by Tepix on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @05:51AM (#22801790)
That‘s statistics. In reality there are many factors that make COVID-19 much more dangerous for a lot of people. Besides, i don‘t feel like taking an extea 2 in 1000 chance of dying, thank you very much.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by smichel17 on Monday April 06, 2020 @09:24PM (#22799552)
If I do the right thing and protect myself, I reduce strain on hospitals, allowing the careless to receive better care. But enough people being careless will overload the healthcare system all the same, reducing its ability to serve me.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by cortesoft on Monday April 06, 2020 @04:10PM (#22797273)
So what should we do?
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by vkou on Monday April 06, 2020 @04:19PM (#22797387)
Carbon taxes, and protectionist trade tariffs against countries who don't adopt carbon taxes.

Make non-compliance painful enough, and the defectors will fall in line.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by banads on Monday April 06, 2020 @05:22PM (#22798028)
>Make non-compliance painful enough, and the defectors will fall in line.

Maybe they don't, or maybe in the end that's all too little too late, which is why I'd suggest adding adaptation initiatives to your list.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by vkou on Monday April 06, 2020 @05:48PM (#22798237)
We're going to have to turn to adaptation initiatives even if we go net-zero-carbon tomorrow - that's kind of baked into our future planning at this point.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by mirimir on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:51PM (#22799083)
What if the defectors have more nukes than you do?
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by e9 on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:23AM (#22800529)
For a lot of countries it’s either emit pollution and feed people or don’t and let lots of people starve. Do you think your privileged life worth more than someone from third world who can barely afford to eat?
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by Rexxar on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:56PM (#22799102)
Buy carbon and store it somewhere.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by jfrankamp on Monday April 06, 2020 @05:17PM (#22797983)
The United States military could best be used to fight this by destroying (with warning) global fossil fuel infrastructure that wasn't voluntarily closed, bit by bit with a decade long schedule. The announcement alone would prompt a massive shift in energy production, use, investment etc. Our own legacy infrastructure would also have to be on the list. Call it a Paris accord with teeth.

It will never happen, because collectively we don't believe the cost of climate change is greater than the cost of leveling the landscape of incentives to reduce emissions + reducing emissions. The US could unilaterally leverage its remaining military lead to enact global change.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by mnl on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:12PM (#22798834)
Wow... So the military of the state that has contributed most to the global cumulative CO2 emissions (25%) can "solve" the problem with indiscriminate attacks and war crimes everywhere else now. Fascinating. Are people forgetting about this practice of thinking about their idea at least for 30 seconds before starting to type?
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by jfrankamp on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:08PM (#22805154)
Targeting unoccupied fossil fuel infrastructure on an announced schedule is indiscriminate? War crimes for killing an oil derrick?

That is fascinating to me. We know the Paris accord cannot work without enforcement. It is economically disadvantageous to go first. As I said, it will never happen. We don't take the threat seriously, we don't believe it is an existential threat.

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by mnl on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @02:35PM (#22806066)
Well, it happens to be both things. I have no doubt that you will find international criminal law fascinating, you just have to google it.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by tlrobinson on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:58PM (#22798710)
That sounds like a good way to start World War III. The top oil producing countries after the US are:

Saudi Arabia, Russia, Canada, China, Iraq, United Arab Emirates, Brazil, Iran, Kuwait

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=709&t=6

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by Mountain_Skies on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:08PM (#22798803)
Nuclear winter would solve global warming though it still would count as climate change, so maybe it's a wash.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by jfrankamp on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:20PM (#22805274)
All signatories of the Paris accord. All are nominally thought to be rapidly transforming their economies in response to an existential crisis.

"including high polluters such as China, the US, India, Russia, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Canada, Indonesia and Mexico, which generate more than half the world's greenhouse gas emissions, will somehow drive down their carbon pollution voluntarily and assiduously without any binding enforcement mechanism"

What is the binding enforcement mechanism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement

Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by mirimir on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:58PM (#22799114)
Well, Russia doesn't seem so happy about global warming. I gather that melting permafrost screws up gas production. So maybe they'd want to work with the US.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by jchook on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:25PM (#22799261)
The US is well versed in "the lesser of two evils"
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by malandrew on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:35PM (#22799865)
Can militaries around the world even operate without fossil fuels? Some of the larger ships and submarines are nuclear, but pretty much everything else is fossil fuel dependent AFAIK.
Re:Coronavirus and Credibility by kaikai on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:15PM (#22798852)
The US military is a leading source of carbon emissions