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Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by solaxun on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @01:39PM (#22740123)
"So, since you don't want to store that money under your mattress"...

I never understood/agreed with this argument. I'd much rather withdraw all my money and keep it in a safe than lock in a loss. I suppose for most people though the minor loss of principal outweighs that inconvenience, but for me, as a matter of principle, I refuse to be paid less than my principal (I didn't mean for that to come out as cheesy as it did).

Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by hluska on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @02:16PM (#22740594)
When I was 19, I had an economics professor who did a great job of explaining that idiom to our young ears.

He talked about feudal times when landowners had to store their gold. So they had to build these massive castles with walls, hire professional soldiers, train their kids to wield weapons and even give some of their land to particularly good soldiers. That system was really expensive so they needed slaves to keep the whole system going. Since all the other landowners knew that you had all your gold in your castle, when they came upon hard times they would often attack. So, you would give your slaves primitive weapons and have them fight to defend ‘their homes’.

From the serf’s perspective, that system sucked. They worked hard, didn’t get paid and occasionally had to go into battle to protect their landowner. After a few generations, when you say “you know, Grandpa died in a battle. Dad and all my uncles died in battles. Three of my siblings died as infants. And they want me to take a fucking spear and protect that system?

Over the years, the system collapsed because slaves could get a better deal in cities. Landowners couldn’t afford their fortunes and castles fell into disrepair.

Basically, banks seem like a real ripoff until you consider the reality of having to store all your money in an environment where everyone knows whereabouts you have it stored!

Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by solaxun on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @02:23PM (#22740694)
That analogy works when everybody is doing the same thing and it's common knowledge that the average person has their assets sitting in their castle, but we're talking about 2020 when that would be the exception, not the norm.

You're acting like I would go on hackernews and tell everybody where my money is or something...

Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:00PM (#22741843)
I assume if you were going to tell hackernews it would be with a Show HN post for your new pirate app that allows users to find where you have hidden the treasure in your house.
Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by bitxbitxbitcoin on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:17PM (#22742692)
I believe the HN-friendly term for that is "geo-caching."
Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by brokenkebab on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:37AM (#22747049)
That's more a fairytale, then the explanation to human history at least. It sounds almost as if feudalism gone, because guys with swords had no banks to keep their heavy yellowish coins. Which is not very accurate. FWIW very few feudal families were able to hoard gold, or jewels, and for the most part they kept the same things in their castles a village granddaddy would, just in bigger quantities (i.e. food, and fuel). Coins were as expendable as a sauerkraut, and sausages, just easier to store (but not always as liquid as fantasy series makes us think). Were you a feudal you would care the most for the sole thing able to give you wealth almost every year - land.
Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by chewz on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:41PM (#22741615)
Actually until industrial revolution the only asset generating yield was not gold but landowning. It wasn't risk less but on average it was the only asset available generating positive returns.

The castles and gold vaults were nice but only as a temporary store of wealth. Most of rulers were constantly in debt used to pay for wars and representation (buying influence).

XIX century introduced bonds which paid yields in coin, bankrupted most of landowners and created this new breed of entrepreneur capitalist.

Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by WJW on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @01:51PM (#22740290)
In order to make the calculation 'correctly', don't forget to price in the correct amount of risk. As an example, say there is a 0.2% chance in any given year of your house catching fire, either through your own fault or from a neighboring property on fire. If there is a 50% chance of you being able to rescue the money in such a situation, then that is an estimated 0.1% loss in any given year. There is also a similarly priceable risk for theft etc, which would probably increase with the amount stored. If it becomes known that there is 500k in cash stored in your house, there are probably plenty of people greedy or desperate enough to break in with heavy tooling when you're out and steal the whole safe.
Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by solaxun on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @02:11PM (#22740528)
Well, while we're in the realm of discussing tail risks - what is the risk that if your assets exceed FDIC insurance limits, the bank you have them in defaults?

Since we're discussing a negative rate environment, presumably this is a stressful time for the economy making this more likely than history would indicate. If you have your assets at multiple institutions to stay under the limits, what's the probability of one of those failing, and what's the probability the FDIC fails?

Depending on how negative rates are, the math can quickly turn those probabilities you outlined above into risks I'm willing to take.

Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by fauigerzigerk on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @01:50PM (#22740281)
So you would rather buy a safe and take out insurance than pay a fee to someone who already has both (i.e a bank)?
Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by eloff on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:22PM (#22742758)
This is exactly what German banks are doing rather than parking their euros with the central bankhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-31/german-ba...
Re:Ask HN: How to prosper under negative interest rates? by bryanlarsen on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @01:46PM (#22740207)
That safe and ancillary services like armed guards or insurance could quite likely cost more than 0.5% per annum.