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Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by jandrese on Monday March 30, 2020 @07:52PM (#22733444)
At the same time you shouldn't be wearing one because they're a scarce resource and doctors/nurses/first responders need them more.

To be fair the article does suggest making your own and then helpfully links to this [1] dead website.

[1] https://www.consumer.org.hk/ws_en/news/specials/2020/mask-di...

Edit: fixed a typo

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by Lukman on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:08PM (#22733594)
This is a wrong and dangerous message and it needs to be stopped. Both things are true: a) health workers need masks and b) people should wear masks when they go out.

There are no masks available to the public now. Realistically if you don't already have a mask your only option is to make one, which is not hard. Go to YouTube and find a video. A couple layers of cotton can work and is much better than nothing, at stopping your droplets from spreading if you sneeze or cough.

If you already have a mask wear it when you go out. No health care worker wants your mask. Wear goggles too.

And yes masks help prevent respiratory infection which is why health care workers wear them.

Stop with the "you shouldn't be wearing one" nonsense. It is false and dangerous.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by Wowfunhappy on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:27PM (#22733747)
I live in New York City. I haven't left my building in weeks, but I can see people on the sidewalk outside of my window, and I see other residents of my building in the lobby when I go (briefly!) to pick up laundry and mail.

Many of them are wearing surgical masks. Not N95 masks, true, but not home-made masks either. I don't know where they're getting the masks, but clearly they have some.

Every time I see this, I honestly kind of want to scream at them.

If you want to wrap a piece of fabric around your nose and mouth, by all means, it certainly can't hurt. But if you have a supply of real masks somewhere, you should donate them.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by SAI_Peregrinus on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:23AM (#22738382)
I keep a box of surgical masks, since I'm one of the weirdos who wears one when sick even in the US! I've got 3. The box is years old, they're expired, they're not sterile any more, and I'll keep re-using them until they fail (the elastic stretches). As desperate as hospitals are these still aren't donatable.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by btrettel on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:05PM (#22733551)
Is it okay if I use masks that I bought years ago? (N95 in my case.) As far as I'm aware there's no way a healthcare worker could get access to the masks I already have.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by BryantD on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:37PM (#22733821)
I am not saying that you should keep or donate them, but if you choose to donate them, the Seattle Mask Brigade Page includes a link to other groups organizing mass collection of unused but opened N95 masks.

I apologize if you’ve already explored this but I figure it could help others.

https://sites.google.com/view/seattle-mask-donations/

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by m4rtink on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:26PM (#22733739)
>As far as I'm aware there's no way a healthcare worker could get access to the masks I already have.

AFAIK locally (Czech Republic) hospitals have accepted donations of respirators and even hand made cloth masks. Maybe something similar is possible with hospitals in your are as well ?

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by rubidium on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:08PM (#22733587)
Yes. It’s ok for you to use the one you bought yesterday too. But first do what you can to help your neighbors and medical personal.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by zepearl on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:16PM (#22733667)
I'm wondering the same thing:

I bought in 2014 100 chirurgical masks => they're now expired (and I have ~15 left after giving all others to friends and colleagues after warning them about this) but from what I read the statements were that they can still be effective (not anymore 100% but at least more than 0%, which is more than not wearing anything).

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by Wowfunhappy on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:00PM (#22733514)
This. If you're wearing a mask, then there's a healthcare worker somewhere who you're preventing from wearing a mask. That healthcare worker is taking care of patients who definitely have the Cornavirus, and is getting up close to them while they're coughing. They need that mask more than you do.

And I don't mean this in an abstract way. There are numerous places accepting mask donations right now. If you have a mask, you should donate it. Stat.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by erics32 on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:19PM (#22733686)
By all means donate your n95 and surgical masks, but many studies show that DIY masks are nearly as effective in stopping asymptomatic spread so the messaging should be around asking everyone to wear a (DIY) mask when they go out.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by rubidium on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:06PM (#22733568)
“ There are numerous places accepting mask donations right now.” Honestly asking where? I haven’t heard of that.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by advisedwang on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:11PM (#22733621)
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by BryantD on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:37PM (#22733826)
Long list at the bottom of this page:

https://sites.google.com/view/seattle-mask-donations/

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by uluyol on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:11PM (#22733622)
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by collinmanderson on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:34PM (#22733798)
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by neltnerb on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:18PM (#22733678)
I personally arranged to donate several thousand gloves per size from just one lab at MIT. Lots of places have safety glasses outside the medical field, any shop might have boxes of spares laying around.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by m4rtink on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:29PM (#22733760)
You are right in that medical professionals need proper equipment. At the same time it is very dangerous not to say that anyone else should have at least a home made mask when going out, to avoid possibly spreading the infection further if they are infected and do not know it yet.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by melling on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:11PM (#22733616)
The ship is sinking and there aren’t enough lifeboats.

History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by collinmanderson on Monday March 30, 2020 @09:00PM (#22733964)
The point is to make a homemade mask to protect other people. If everyone else is wearing a mask, then you're protected.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by Wowfunhappy on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:22PM (#22733716)
The ship is sinking and there aren't enough scuba diving suits.

There are professionals willing to jump into the water to try and patch the hull so it sinks more slowly, giving everyone time to get airlifted off by helicopter. Unfortunately, they're drowning while attempting the repairs because they're not wearing proper scuba diving gear. Meanwhile, normals are keeping the gear for themselves in the hope it might be easier to swim to safety once the ship goes under.

This isn't a very good analogy—but I hope my point comes through. It's not every person for themselves. We need to help the people trying to help everyone.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by darkerside on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:08PM (#22733590)
Zero sum thinking here.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by caconym_ on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:15PM (#22733655)
Until healthcare workers aren't complaining about not having enough PPE to do their jobs safely, this is the correct line of thinking, zero sum or not.

Personally, given the vastly greater risk of exposure for them, I don't think it's a zero-sum game at all, which is precisely why all available supplies should go to them first.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by collinmanderson on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:37PM (#22733819)
Yes, as many available supplies as possible should go to healthcare workers.

So make 10 masks, donate 9, and keep the 10th for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVEVve-3QeM

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by caconym_ on Monday March 30, 2020 @09:38PM (#22734167)
I guess I'm not convinced that the 10th one shouldn't go to them too. They are dealing with a vastly increased risk of exposure than I am, and likely with significantly greater infectious loads as well, which may^[1] increase the severity of the disease.

If for some reason I had to spend a lot of time in close proximity to other people, that might merit a homemade mask, but otherwise I think I'd be doing a far better job protecting both of us and everyone else we interact with (in the process of obtaining food and essential supplies) by giving it to my wife before she heads out for her next shift at the hospital.

^[1] https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/sars-cov-2-viral-load-and-the-...

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by Wowfunhappy on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:41PM (#22733850)
Firstly, if everyone does this, there's 10% fewer masks for doctors than there'd be otherwise. I would posit that their need is so much drastically greater that they really should get every last one.

Remember—your job is to stay six feet away from everyone else, on the off chance they might have the Coranavirus. Doctors and nurses are getting up close with people they know for sure have the Coronavirus, all day, every day.

But more importantly, the masks are disposable! It's not like you can keep one and use it indefinitely.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by collinmanderson on Monday March 30, 2020 @09:04PM (#22733990)
The homemade mask in the video I linked above is made out of a tshirt and is washable except for the papertowel filter.

> if everyone does this, there's 10% fewer masks for doctors than there'd be otherwise

Right, but the point is to make as many as possible, hopefully with a better ratio.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by darkerside on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:44PM (#22733867)
It defies common sense to not wear a personal mask. Like donating your six shooter to an outgunned military. The marginal benefit to you is so much more than the marginal benefit to them.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by caconym_ on Monday March 30, 2020 @09:29PM (#22734120)
More like donating your ballistic vest to a military that's expected to win eventually but with heavy losses. The marginal benefit may be low due to the sheer scale of the problem they're facing, but it still might save a life—and what if every American made a mask and donated it instead of wearing it themselves?

It's also possible—likely, even—that the severity of the disease in an individual is correlated with the magnitude of the initial infectious dose, and healthcare workers without effective PPE are going to be most at risk for high doses, which will act as a multiplier on the benefits of PPE usage for them. In the analogy, one might compare this to the chance that a stray, tumbling bullet fired in a high arc by the enemy will hit you while you're trying to buy groceries, vs. the chance that a soldier on the front lines will be lethally wounded by a deliberate shot. Who needs the vest more?

As noted here^[1], this is all very much up in the air, but the more I think about it, the more my brain rejects the marginal benefit argument as an illusion. Healthcare workers are on the front lines, and by most accounts it's their labors that'll cut the mortality rate from 10+% to ~1-5%. They need all the help they can get, and the rest of us need them to stay healthy and able to do their jobs.

^[1] https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/sars-cov-2-viral-load-and-the-...

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by imgabe on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:11PM (#22733615)
It's a zero sum situation when there's a finite quantity of masks.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by little_dormouse on Monday March 30, 2020 @07:55PM (#22733467)
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by Izkata on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:05PM (#22733556)
I've been considering knitting my own mask(s), but haven't been able to find anything on whether it would actually work - like, would it be too porous to do anything? (Plan was 1-1 ribbing wide enough to not stretch, so the layers would kinda double-up on their own)
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by collinmanderson on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:40PM (#22733840)
Jeremy Howard has done a ton of research. Depending on the material, it's around 50% effective, which is incredible given the current situation.

https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1242894378441506816

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by jandrese on Monday March 30, 2020 @07:58PM (#22733494)
That says people are doing it because the government forced them to, not that it is easy or that they are doing it right. In fact the only tip seems to be to make it out of cotton so you can wash it.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by m4rtink on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:33PM (#22733796)
And for once I think our government was right in forcing everyone to wear a mask. As it turns out, it is not really hard to comply with something rather drastic like this & the whole nation pretty much equiped itself with hand made masks in a couple days.

I went out today in the second biggest city here in Czech Republic and you can see most people with self made cloth masks, a couple with simple single use disposable masks and just a single person with something looking like a respirator. And zero people without a mask.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by bagels on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:06PM (#22733564)
Do you feel that if someone has an old construction mask in their garage from years ago that it is not ethical to wear it?
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by benjohnson on Monday March 30, 2020 @11:48PM (#22734776)
Of course it's ethical to wear it. If you have some to spare, then it may be ethical also to share with others.

We've been donating some of our N95 masks to the local hospital, but I'm not donating all of them. My family is important too.

As for age, I have noticed that the older ones had crumbly rubber foam and the straps are more delicate, but the melt-blown fabric itself seems perfectly fine. We've re-strapped some with new elastic and replaced the foam with closed-cell foam.

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by TylerE on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:14PM (#22733645)
It may not be effective. Shelf life is usually rated at something like 5 years.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by pmoriarty on Monday March 30, 2020 @09:13PM (#22734047)
It's far from clear how long masks will be effective against SARS-CoV-2 (aka Coronavirus) for.

First, when testing their masks for their effectiveness, the manufacturers of these masks were certainly not testing them against SARS-CoV-2, as it didn't exist five years ago. Even now, it's very unlikely any manufacturers are testing their masks against SARS-Cov-2. What they were probably testing them against is various toxic fumes and smoke -- the things they're actually rated to be effective against, not viruses.

Second, some filters used in respirator-style masks have charcoal in them, and that charcoal will absorb fumes from the environment while in storage, so depending on what environment a filter is stored in and for how long the charcoal may not be as effective at absorbing various toxic fumes and smoke that these filters were tested for, but for all we know they may still be quite effective against filtering out SARS-CoV-2 viruses.

Third, it's well known that some manufacturers put bogus expiration dates on their products, and the products are good well past the expiry date. This is a phenomenon well known in the food industry. I'm not sure how widespread it is among mask manufacturers, but I wouldn't put it past them to also have unreliable expiry dates.

The CDC has some guidelines regarding the use of expired masks: [1][2] and they approve of the use of some such expired masks. However, it's not clear what tests they actually used to decide on the suitability of such masks, and if these masks were actually tested against SARS-CoV-2. It is pretty unlikely that they had randomized, double-blind trials of hundreds of people wearing masks and hundreds not and exposing them all to SARS-CoV-2 to see which got infected. Their tests were probably much more imperfect, and so their results less reliable.

All in all, there's just too little information to know how effective expired masks are against infection by SARS-CoV-2, but they're probably better than nothing.. especially the ones the CDC has blessed in their research.

[1] - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/release-stockpiled...

[2] - https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/FAQ-N95.aspx

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by angry_octet on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:28PM (#22733751)
And studies have shown only a small decrease in effectiveness of technically expired masks.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by orangecat on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:26PM (#22733741)
It's almost certainly better than nothing.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by miles on Monday March 30, 2020 @07:56PM (#22733480)
> To be fair the article does suggest making your own and then helpfully links to this [1] dead website.

It's been hugged to death.

Here is a cached copy:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oC-tOJ...

and here is a direct link to the embedded video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY-29VBkGmw

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by starpilot on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:14PM (#22733647)
Hospitals are only accepting unopened masks. If yours is already opened, then wear it.
Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by collinmanderson on Monday March 30, 2020 @08:44PM (#22733866)
Some hospital networks are even accepting homemade masks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/business/coronavirus-mask...

Re:You Probably Should Be Wearing a Face Mask If You Can by JadeNB on Monday March 30, 2020 @07:55PM (#22733468)
Not to pick on a typo, but, since it can appear to change meaning: I'm pretty sure you mean that they're a scarce resource, not a scare resource.