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Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by tathougies on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:18PM (#22660961)
Except China is clearly lying about having their outbreak contained. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for everyone to realize.
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by throwanem on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:23PM (#22660977)
It would help, I think, if such claims were supported in ways that didn't make them sound like conspiracy theories and fearmongering.

Perhaps you'd like to do so. If not, consider that this is a singularly bad time to be spreading misinformation, no matter how plausible you may find it. People are already frightened enough.

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by tathougies on Monday March 23, 2020 @06:05PM (#22669312)
Here you go. From Caixin, an independent chinese newspaper, https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-03-04/lights-are-on-but-no...

Again, doesn't take a genius.

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by senectus1 on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:27PM (#22660996)
Present it like they do Malaysia or Indonesia... they're just not testing and not reporting.

nothing more complicated than that.

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by throwanem on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:28PM (#22661004)
Sources?
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by tathougies on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:59PM (#22661145)
Actually the burden of proof is on you. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You claim China's official figures are true.

However, China lied about human transmissibility of the virus until Jan 20.

They lied about where the virus came from including lying that it was an American invention.

They also did not count pneumonia deaths caused by the virus: https://www.wsj.com/articles/relatives-wonder-whether-pneumo...

They have also kicked out american media so there are no independent fact checkers on the ground.

Their official death rate is also lower than every other country's.

Thus, the null hypothesis is that china is lying, like they always do. A claim that they are not lying would need to be supported by evidence. Otherwise this is just the fallacy of an appeal to authority.

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by arcticbull on Monday March 23, 2020 @12:02AM (#22661164)
We have tons of non-China sources, and their death rate is low because of their overwhelmingly aggressive response and tactics, which were lauded by the WHO.
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by taiwanboy on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:46PM (#22661084)
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21A014

China sees drop in new coronavirus cases; all new cases imported, March 22

https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/fmz3d6/while_china_c...

Translated: On March 20th, A local community management issued a notice, stating that one of the unit has 2 patient found, the unit will be sealed and no one is allowed to enter or exit.

It essentaily means that they are starving to death in the room.

Don’t trust the Chinese government’s propaganda

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by throwanem on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:54PM (#22661119)
So, I'm not to trust a government - which is fair; I don't - but a totally unsourced and unverifiable Reddit post is 100% okay? When its claim is that the CCP is competent enough to enforce the murder by starvation of two innocent people, while the existence of the post that makes the claim implies that the CCP is too incompetent to prevent word of such a crime getting out, even to the point of issuing an official document to prove they're doing it?

Do you see what I mean about seeming like a conspiracy theory? Heinlein's Red-baiting about Soviet cosmonauts unpersoned when their early space capsules failed and stranded them, despite being nonsense, had at least the virtue of originality. But that was over half a century ago. I'd like to hope our standards have risen in the interim.

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by taiwanboy on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:59PM (#22661143)
You are being a bit naive about journalism in an authoritarian country that has control over digital media coming out of the country. The fact that this picture made it out (suggesting that image recognition/AI censor rules are still naive in China) is proof enough that there are voices desperately trying to tell the outside world - don’t trust their government!!
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by arcticbull on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:48PM (#22661093)
Have you considered it takes a while for cases to filter up or down? Incompetence is usually a better candidate than malice. It could be they'll report it a few days from now, or that these cases were found and reported a few days prior to the 20th and were folded into earlier reportings. For instance, if the cases were identified and reported on the 18th, and the notice was posted on the 20th, that would remain consistent.

Stop with the unfounded speculation and fearmongering.

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by arcticbull on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:30PM (#22661014)
> Except China is clearly lying about having their outbreak contained. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for everyone to realize.

You have no data to back up your totally spurious allegations. Are you just outright speculating? If you're going to say something so bold, citations are necessary.

What we do know is this:

- Apple has re-opened their factories and all 42 Apple stores in all of China [1], and closed their Apple stores in the entire rest of the world [2]. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Apple would do this except in the face of evidence. What kind of PR nightmare do you think they'd be inviting if it was discovered they put lives at risk to placate the PRC?

- Tourist attractions and factories are re-opening. [3]

- The WHO said: "China’s bold approach to contain the rapid spread of this new respiratory pathogen has changed the course of a rapidly escalating and deadly epidemic. A particularly compelling statistic is that on the first day of the advance team’s work there were 2478 newly confirmed cases of COVID-19 reported in China. Two weeks later, on the final day of this Mission, China reported 409 newly confirmed cases. This decline in COVID-19 cases across China is real." [4]

- I've no doubt this will be confirmed via observation of atmospheric release of nitrous oxides in short order.

Fine, if you don't want to believe China, Apple or the WHO (and soon NASA), you better have some data, otherwise it's just breathless unsubstantiated fear-mongering and conspiracy theories.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/13/21177964/apple-stores-chi...

[2] https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/apple-extends-coronavirus-trig...

[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesasquith/2020/03/21/no-new-...

[4] https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-chi...

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by seanmcdirmid on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:39PM (#22661049)
I’ve heard that rather than eliminate all new cases, the best we can hope to achieve would be to slow down the spread so our health system isn’t overwhelmed all at once (most of us would get the virus, just not all at once). Somehow China is claiming to achieve the complete elimination goal rather than the more pragmatic slow the spread goal. Which begs the question, what are we getting wrong in the rest of the world?
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by arcticbull on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:43PM (#22661070)
> Which begs the question, what are we getting wrong in the rest of the world?

They literally locked people in their homes in the entirety of Wuhan (population 19 million) for a month and sent drones after them if they walked out. It's really not possible for a disease to spread if people are physically isolated. That much is settled science haha.

The difference is China kept people apart by force, and much of the west doesn't have the necessary respect for authority to do so voluntarily. One comment I replied to here someone literally quoted me the national anthem as their justification for going outside and ignoring the shelter-in-place orders.

If there's one thing a totalitarian government can do effectively, it's lock people indoors.

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by ofcourseianal on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:42PM (#22661067)
Wake up. No other country implemented the same measures at the same point in the infection curve.
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by zepto on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:49PM (#22661098)
Russia implemented measures earlier, and has almost defeated covid-19 with only one death.
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by tathougies on Monday March 23, 2020 @12:00AM (#22661149)
WHO claimed the virus was not contagious up until Jan 20. They are not a trustworthy source but a propaganda arm of the Chinese communist party. The claim that their figures are true is simply an appeal to authority not even backed up by any argument that the supposed authority is even trustworthy.
Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by arcticbull on Monday March 23, 2020 @12:06AM (#22661173)
The United Nations World Health Organization, contributed to by the entire world, is a propaganda arm of the Chinese. [citation needed]. Weird, as of 2012, the largest annual assessed contributions from member states came from the United States ($110 million), Japan ($58 million), Germany ($37 million), United Kingdom ($31 million) and France ($31 million). [1]

They may well have been wrong, or made mistakes early on. You can't exactly claim that the US' response was bang on the money the whole time either. Remember two weeks ago when Donald Trump told us this was nothing to worry about then the next day declared a national emergency then the day after invoked the defense procurement act then did nothing with it? Remember a few days ago when he called it the "deep state department" in front of Fauci who couldn't contain his laughter? Is Donald Trump a propaganda arm of the Chinese? Uh actually wait don't answer that, but you get my point.

It's usually incompetence not malice. Provide sources, not speculation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization#Fina...

Re:Nobel laureate predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery by toasterlovin on Sunday March 22, 2020 @11:32PM (#22661020)
While I don’t believe the line that their new cases are at zero, I have a lot of contact with the Asian and Chinese supply chain and I can assure you that things are mostly back to normal with Chinese factories. So the situation in China is much improved at the very least.