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Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by burkaman on Saturday March 21, 2020 @10:21PM (#22652152)
Yes? What's your point?
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by djannzjkzxn on Saturday March 21, 2020 @11:52PM (#22652588)
The cause of high housing prices are low supply and high demand. Housing supply is growing at a slower rate than demand. There are two ways to solve this:

1) build a ton of housing to catch up with demand

2) shrink your local economy to decrease demand

If a lawmaker isn’t working on one of these two options, they do not actually support a platform of low housing prices.

Airbnb is only a small slice of housing demand. It’s an ugly slice, which makes the company a convenient punching bag for politicians who want to act like they are trying to make housing affordable. But the economy in high-demand cities will keep growing regardless of whether you kill Airbnb.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by DoreenMichele on Sunday March 22, 2020 @12:00AM (#22652618)
Yes and no.

I used to be very active on a forum for urban planners. They made a very strong case that a few decades back and in living memory of some older members, small coastal towns in the US were affordable and pleasant and similar to other small towns. Then the practice of owning vacation homes drove up prices out of reach of locals and tourism brought other problems.

And this was before Airbnb was a thing and magnified such issues.

You need to build more housing and all that. But you also need to say "Housing is primarily for the people who actually live here and the wants and desires of wealthy tourists absolutely doesn't trump that." or basically the entire world lives in a shithole so a tiny fraction of the population can do whatever the fuck and indulge their every whim cuz money.

This is not a good thing. Not even for the rich people getting away with it while people say "Eat the rich." There is a long history of the lower classes violently and murderously removing the elites when they do that.

I'd like to not "live in interesting times" that include violent revolution. Covid19 is enough fun for me, thanks. I'm a boring fuddy duddy like that. Party pooper. Don't drink. Etc

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by im3w1l on Sunday March 22, 2020 @01:21AM (#22652933)
Isn't it more fair that everyone gets a chance to spend some time on the coast than that a few people who hoarded all the property there before we were even born get to have it to themselves?
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by DoreenMichele on Sunday March 22, 2020 @01:24AM (#22652941)
People can spend time at the coast without owning a second home that sits empty most of the time.

Historically, we used hotels to visit places we spent limited time in.

(Or you can camp, visit friends, etc.)

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by im3w1l on Sunday March 22, 2020 @01:29AM (#22652966)
I was replying to the vacation home part but the airbnb part. And regarding hotels they also drive up the price for coastal properties. I guess that is not as obvious for people to comprehend as they see an airbnb'd apartment and think "I could live there" while that doesn't go for the hotel. When really it's the lots they should consider.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by gamblor956 on Sunday March 22, 2020 @03:53AM (#22653431)
Hotels are designed for short-term stays, and are regulated and taxed on that basis. (This includes such things as zoning, building code compliance, etc.)

Units converted to AirBnBs were not designed for short-term stays or taxed on that basis, and generally AirBnB only exists because it leveraged regulatory arbitrage quickly enough to grow to the point it could lobby for changes to the law. But after multiple studies in multiple cities confirmed that only a handful of investors benefited from loose unregulated short-term rentals, the pendulum began swinging back towards regulating them like the hotels they are.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by DoreenMichele on Sunday March 22, 2020 @03:56AM (#22653443)
It can also void your homeowners insurance to rent your home out on Airbnb.

There have been articles about this. It sticks in my mind because I used to be in insurance.

Residential buildings were not intended to be used this way and all the policy and infrastructure points to "No, really, you weren't supposed to use this as a commercial vehicle. That's not what all of society agreed to for this piece of real property."

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by foldr on Sunday March 22, 2020 @05:21AM (#22653746)
I've always suspected that being an Airbnb host appears to be much more profitable than it really is because hosts are not properly insured.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by stevekemp on Sunday March 22, 2020 @09:13AM (#22654710)
I wonder if it would even make a difference? I used to be a landlord in Scotland, and now am in Finland.

For landlord insurance I'd pay about £300/year in Scotland, and €60/year in Finland. I'd be surprised if there were short-term policies, as distinct from long-term-tenant policies, that we significantly more expensive than that.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by foldr on Monday March 23, 2020 @05:59AM (#22662466)
The risk from taking on multiple short-term tenants with no real background checks is surely much greater. Especially given that the tenants have no real incentive to behave well or keep the property in good condition.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by perl4ever on Sunday March 22, 2020 @09:40AM (#22654862)
Some people do think the indigenous peoples that originally lived there should have exclusive rights.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by nradov on Sunday March 22, 2020 @01:34AM (#22652982)
A third solution would be to actively encourage economic development in other cities, rather than cramming more and more residents and businesses into a few geographically constrained areas.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by djannzjkzxn on Sunday March 22, 2020 @04:43AM (#22653608)
I’d find local politicians who block housing projects more credible if they were also telling companies to go away and hire people somewhere else. But in fact they keep approving giant office building projects.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by blackrock on Sunday March 22, 2020 @02:21AM (#22653137)
The problem has been the boomers that have valuable housing, and actively vote in politicians and laws that will ensure that their housing prices remain high.

Housing is a basic human right. But this is denied to millions of Americans, simply because those that came before them, were able to secure affordable housing for themselves, while locking out others from attaining affordable housing.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by BubRoss on Sunday March 22, 2020 @07:37AM (#22654242)
How are people being 'denied' affordable housing? Do you mean to say that your ideal location is more than you want to spend? Did you find a place to live that was affordable and someone denied you from buying it?
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by charleslmunger on Sunday March 22, 2020 @10:04AM (#22654993)
In many places it is literally illegal to build anything but the most expensive type of housing, due to single family zoning.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by BubRoss on Sunday March 22, 2020 @12:49PM (#22656353)
What is making you live there?
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by blackrock on Monday March 23, 2020 @03:56AM (#22662007)
How about a job? Even if it takes over an hour for your commute.

How about close proximity to family and relatives?

Sure, you can move to middle-of-nowhere Texas, and buy land for cheap, but how are you going to pay for that cheaper mortgage, if there are no jobs around? Maybe you can get a telecommuting job?

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by BubRoss on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:06AM (#22664784)
The question here is what constitutes someone being 'denied' housing. Is needing to live with roommates being 'denied' housing?
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by csp256 on Sunday March 22, 2020 @02:23PM (#22657220)
Those goalposts gave me whiplash.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by BubRoss on Sunday March 22, 2020 @04:12PM (#22658194)
The person I replied to said housing was being 'denied' to millions. Living somewhere with expensive housing, whatever the reason, is not being 'denied' a place to live. There is an enormous amount of entitlement that goes in to thinking not being able to live somewhere already extremely desirable is being 'denied' a place to live.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by dirtydroog on Sunday March 22, 2020 @05:23AM (#22653766)
They were merely exercising their human right.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by blackrock on Sunday March 22, 2020 @05:42AM (#22653830)
Yes, true. They were exercising their own right to vote.

However, at some point, their votes interfered with the human rights of others. At what point does the government and society step in, and say, enough is enough?

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by esyir on Monday March 23, 2020 @06:48AM (#22662726)
I'm very much sympathetic to those who can't afford housing in the prime areas, but housing in prime land is not a human right.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by lend000 on Saturday March 21, 2020 @10:25PM (#22652170)
Instead of worrying about how people choose to rent their properties, they should instead look to the source of high rental prices, which is bad zoning laws and insufficient total units.

Meanwhile Airbnb creates a level of convenience and affordability that makes travel accessible to the masses. I'm sure the software engineers down-voting wouldn't be significantly affected if Airbnb was forced out of operation. Just another version of NIMBYism.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by mumblemumble on Saturday March 21, 2020 @10:47PM (#22652273)
At least based on the prices I've seen when considering my options, the big potential for savings with airbnb is if you choose to take advantage of the kitchen, so that you're not paying to eat out for every meal.

But, if affordability really is your top goal, you'll do even better if you go with a hotel that offers kitchenette suites. In my experience, they typically offer a lower nightly fee than having an airbnb to yourself (especially if you are staying at least a week and don't require someone else to come make your bed for you ever day), and still let you save on meal costs.

(Airbnbing a room out of someone's house is even less expensive, but I don't think that style of airbnb rental is really the subject of much controversy.)

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by DoreenMichele on Saturday March 21, 2020 @10:59PM (#22652323)
When I was homeless, I sometimes stayed in cheap hotels. I never stayed in an Airbnb. I've seen discussions online where other homeless people also concluded Airbnb was useless and cheap hotels were more accessible for the poorest of the poor Americans.

I've also seen articles about how tourism is destroying cities, destroying the environment, etc.

Meanwhile, an upside to the current pandemic is a massive drop in pollution so extreme it's visible on satellite imagery.

I am reluctant to agree that optimizing for the right of "ordinary people" to pursue jet set lifestyles is really in the best interest of humanity.

I'm happy to let people travel. But "Let's ruin the planet for touristy shit and claim it to be some egalitarian ideal to open that path to less rich people so they can join in on that" is not really a value that strikes me as belonging in the wise and idealistic column.

Mayhap we can find something better if we put a little effort into it.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by DeonPenny on Saturday March 21, 2020 @11:54PM (#22652593)
Everything doesn't have to be for some overarching good. It has to be fair. it's not fair for people to have to lose money on property they bought to help the poorest of poor americans. Giving access to middle class americans to travel more is a noble ideal. Not everything that we paint morally right like taking property people bought and forcing them to rent to poorest of poor american is fair to renter and we shouldn't create a unfair system for the renters cause they have rights too.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by DoreenMichele on Sunday March 22, 2020 @12:06AM (#22652637)
forcing them to rent to poorest of poor american

Absolutely not something I'm advocating. I talk a lot about housing issues. I think it can be solved without making landlords into the victims here.

That's a long conversation I don't really want to have at the moment. This comment might cast a little light on it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22589980

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by AlexandrB on Sunday March 22, 2020 @02:16AM (#22653122)
> it's not fair for people to have to lose money on property they bought to help the poorest of poor americans.

In a "fair" world, property would appreciate at the inflation rate. No more, no less. It's also not fair to help people make money on property at the expense of the poor and the younger generations. So where does that leave us?

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by BubRoss on Sunday March 22, 2020 @07:40AM (#22654260)
You do realize that you can buy land and pay to have a house built right? You could even build it yourself.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by istorical on Saturday March 21, 2020 @11:19PM (#22652421)
Can you explain why motels/hotels were better? In NYC it seems like a roomshare on airbnb in one of the boroughs is way cheaper than any motel or hotel you could find but I could see it being different in cheaper / lower cost of living cities.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by DoreenMichele on Saturday March 21, 2020 @11:24PM (#22652454)
When I looked, they weren't actually cheaper. I never found something cheaper on Airbnb.

Also, I had no car. Hotels always had some eateries and the like in walking distance. If an Airbnb is basically in the middle of fuck nowhere with no amenities nearby, it does you no good if you have no car and very limited funds.

I stayed a lot in two hotels in Fresno. One had a Chipotle, McDonald's, two restaurants and a 7-11 right on top of it and the bus stop was also practically right on top of it. There was more shopping about a 15 or 20 minute walk away.

The other had a Taco Bell practically up against it and more stuff a few minutes walk away even though it was in the worst part of town with the fewest amenities. This also meant it cost less than the other one.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by BubRoss on Sunday March 22, 2020 @07:38AM (#22654248)
When I was even more homeless, I stayed in cheap Airbnbs.
Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by mannykannot on Saturday March 21, 2020 @10:53PM (#22652303)
> Meanwhile Airbnb creates a level of convenience and affordability that makes travel accessible to the masses.

Clearly a greater good than, say, having a place to live, no?

You have a point with your first paragraph - it would have been a good place to stop. Until the bigger issue is addressed, optimizing for a hypothetical situation is premature.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by lend000 on Saturday March 21, 2020 @11:10PM (#22652365)
> optimizing for a hypothetical situation is premature.

Hypothetical? We've seen travel numbers increase significantly over the last decade, and Airbnb now claims a large chunk of that. I think it's important point to remind people why Airbnb exists -- it's a great service with positive benefits. I have stayed in far more Airbnb's than hotels over the last few years, saving money and typically getting a better overall experience.

> Clearly a greater good than, say, having a place to live, no?

This goes back to the first point. Let people build more units. If that doesn't fix the problem, then start evaluating more extreme measures that limit the amount of people that are able to travel to an area at a given time (in the name of making sure people have a place to live.)

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by mannykannot on Saturday March 21, 2020 @11:29PM (#22652477)
Well, there's an interesting technique - quoting me in reverse order, thereby breaking up the logical connection of my statements. Put them in the correct order, and your initial question is answered.

To be absolutely clear: you have identified a greater good if and only if your proposed solution for making housing more affordable is implemented successfully.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by Dylan16807 on Sunday March 22, 2020 @01:12AM (#22652894)
> Put them in the correct order, and your initial question is answered.

The post would read almost exactly the same if it addressed your points in the opposite order. Saying it would 'answer' the question as if you're the total arbiter of this is just not true. They're not confused about what you mean, they're disagreeing.

And it's really not a step one, step two situation anyway. Both parts are important at the same time, in different ways.

Re:Turns out claims Airbnb was taking houses out of the rent... by brlewis on Saturday March 21, 2020 @10:35PM (#22652215)
I've been summarizing the debate here, and so far yours is the comment that contributes most to the top level: https://en.howtruthful.com/o/airbnb_should_be_regulated_beca...