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Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by thereisnospork on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:43PM (#22634090)
There has to be an endgame to these measures that's not 'wait for a vaccine'. A few weeks is tolerable[0], but what happens when early April comes around and new cases are still popping up? The provisions will have to start unwinding or this could go from an economic hiccup to an economic catastrophe.

[0] less so for some.

Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by bobsil1 on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:47PM (#22634123)
Everyone covers mouths to catch asymptomatic spread, cheap testing indicates those who should self-isolate, enforce against scofflaws, econ reopens.
Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by m4rtink on Thursday March 19, 2020 @11:15PM (#22634348)
These meassures are pretty much already happening here in Czech Republic - masks/respirators (of any provenience, even a scarf will do) are now mandatory to prevent you from easily infecting others. And a plane with 100k high speed tests just landed the other day.
Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by empthought on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:52PM (#22634177)
This is correct.
Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by SauciestGNU on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:47PM (#22634126)
Human life is more valuable than the economy. Governments can print arbitrary amounts of money and use monetary policy to soften the blow on people. We can sort the economy out later, right now we should focus on minimizing loss of life.
Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by bcrosby95 on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:57PM (#22634229)
They're working on some pretty fast testing. Before being shut in for 18 months they'll probably develop a policy of weekly standard tests for the population, and require proof of a recent test to do anything in public.
Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by anyfoo on Thursday March 19, 2020 @11:23PM (#22634415)
Fortunately, a few measures have been mentioned here, but I like to address a more general point. You say there "has to be an endgame". My question is: Why? The virus is not something you can negotiate with, it's essentially a force of nature. As a more dire example, if a massive asteroid comes hurling towards the earth, we either get off this rock (rather unlikely), or we all die. Are you going to stand there and say "there has to be an endgame that is neither of those outcomes"?

The people ordering lockdowns only have limited tools in their arsenal.

Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by ironmagma on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:49PM (#22634149)
We’re waiting for a lot of things- vaccines, respirators, treatments, the arrival of warmer weather, and social cooperation. We can’t plan for a month from now because we don’t know what tomorrow will bring. All we can do is try to buy time.
Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by nullspace on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:48PM (#22634134)
I'm just a mere software engineer, so I have no idea about this stuff. But, I feel like this sentiment "has to be an endgame to these measures" feels like wishful thinking.

Why is it impossible that we're headed for an economic catastrophe until a vaccine is out? I can totally see it happening - something where we will have to ration out our basic supplies even. <-- already happening wrt some stuff.

That would just be the cost of saving a few million lives.

Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by MikeAmelung on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:53PM (#22634190)
Yeah, and at least they won't have to endure the rationing, because they were on death's doorstep already. I don't think a lot of people saying this kind of stuff are considering the deaths from an economic catastrophe.
Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by ajross on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:45PM (#22634111)
What's the alternative? Let 10M people die to get back 15% of world GDP? (Both reasonable guesses at pessimal death counts and recessions, IMHO).

The hope is that it will work everywhere like it seems to have in Hubei and Korea -- near-zero new case counts and a regime of continued care, a few extra regulations, and pervasive testing. And it might work. But if it doesn't, yeah: we should turtle, accept the economic catastrophe, and wait for a vaccine. Would anyone sane argue otherwise?

Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by thereisnospork on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:54PM (#22634194)
>Would anyone sane argue otherwise?

a. no need to be rude and b.

The same reason sane people drive automobiles which kill 40,000 people in this country a year[0]: the alternative can be worse.

How many people do you figure are going to get rolled back into poverty at 15% world GDP loss?

[0]Less this year I suppose.

Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by ajross on Thursday March 19, 2020 @11:35PM (#22634544)
> How many people do you figure are going to get rolled back into poverty at 15% world GDP loss?

A whole lot, but they'll get back to parity (on average) in about 6 years, assuming a 2.5% GDP growth. How many dead people do you think will come back to life after six years, in comparison?

I don't want to be glib, but I genuinely don't think you've thought this through. I just can't see a moral argument for allowing a 10M+ death count at the kind of economic impact we're talking about right now.

Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by thereisnospork on Friday March 20, 2020 @01:29AM (#22635196)
>I don't want to be glib, but I genuinely don't think you've thought this through. I just can't see a moral argument for allowing a 10M+ death count at the kind of economic impact we're talking about right now.

Then try thinking through the impact of what could become the biggest economic disruption since the great depression or the great leap forward. Those went well for people. 80 trillion GDP, down to 68, back to 80 in 6 years is a 36 trillion dollar loss in the next six years alone. That's 3.6 million per victim and to be frank, most people aren't worth 3.6 million dollars.

Look, this is a reasonable thing to disagree about but you aren't engaging in good faith.

edit: math

Re:California governor issues statewide 'stay at home' order by noelsusman on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:48PM (#22634144)
The endgame is to wait out the peak, which won't come until May. It's going to be an economic catastrophe.