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Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by allover on Monday March 16, 2020 @02:11PM (#22595536)
Tbf Microsoft have won back a lot of good faith with developers due to projects like VS Code and TypeScript, even for those of us who remember their past.

And we're yet to hear of any negative impact of their Github acquisition (afaik - correct me if wrong).

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by mbesto on Monday March 16, 2020 @03:37PM (#22596684)
> Tbf Microsoft have won back a lot of good faith with developers due to projects like VS Code and TypeScript, even for those of us who remember their past.

Those are great until they're not. It's why it's called "bait and switch".

> And we're yet to hear of any negative impact of their Github acquisition (afaik - correct me if wrong).

ANY?! Heh, do a quick search just on HN and you'll find it pretty quickly.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by michaelmior on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:21PM (#22598007)
I did search, didn't find it quickly. Could you share some sources of the negative impact? (I'm legitimately curious as my use of GitHub hasn't led me to notice any change.)
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by mbesto on Monday March 16, 2020 @07:52PM (#22599659)
I found two pretty damn quickly. They're 3 of the top 5 most upvoted comments on the announcement thread...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17221640

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17221656

> I'm legitimately curious as my use of GitHub hasn't led me to notice any change

Nor I. That's not that point.

For the record, I think Microsoft has done wonderfully for the dev community in the last 10 years. I don't see any reason that they are going to "f it up", but big businesses get desperate when environments change and profits get impacted (look no further than what Oracle is doing). Microsoft is not immune to that.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by IAmEveryone on Monday March 16, 2020 @08:43PM (#22600156)
The complaints are "I think it really impacts the neutrality of github" and "I hope they don't discontinue Atom or apply their UX styling to the site/desktop app", respectively. Those don't strike me as particularly specific and/or nightmarish.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by abdulmuhaimin on Monday March 16, 2020 @11:20PM (#22601291)
concern of negative impact =/= negative impact. Great job twisting the truth. Im not gonna be surprised if you say you're a journalist.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by michaelmior on Monday March 16, 2020 @09:12PM (#22600380)
Neither of those show negative impact but people worried about potential future negative impact.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by allover on Monday March 16, 2020 @06:50PM (#22599056)
I know what 'bait and switch' means, just like I also know what FUD means.

Next you'll call them Micro$oft. Come on now.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by mbesto on Monday March 16, 2020 @07:47PM (#22599614)
Are you aware of what Oracle is doing to its customers right now?
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by nickflood on Monday March 16, 2020 @11:10PM (#22601233)
Come on, Oracle was always predatory. You always knew exactly what would happen to anything they acquire.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by eyelidlessness on Monday March 16, 2020 @07:32PM (#22599501)
Oh this takes me back to when Internet Exploder was the most popular browser
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by DarkmSparks on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @02:25AM (#22602290)
Nothing will come from those idiots spreading fud calling it micro$oft and using npm...

If it does micro$oft will just buy the world out from under them.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by judge2020 on Monday March 16, 2020 @02:27PM (#22595719)
Before someone else comes along and writes a monologue, the biggest downside might be how it handled (didn't break) its contract with ICE[0]. If the acquisition didn't happen, old GitHub might've dropped the contract immediately upon enough employees speaking about it.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21412600

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:39PM (#22598191)
That's a subjective political opinion of a far-left vocal minority. Not everyone has an issue with ICE (a federal law-enforcement agency that stops criminals and saves lives) nor finds a problem with a company legally providing services to the government.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by sneak on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @12:07AM (#22601548)
The fact that ICE has built concentration camps (as verified by scholars who study concentration camps) is a fact, not a subjective or political opinion. The fact that there are children in these camps, many being raped, some being tortured, is also a documented fact, not a subjective opinion.

These are well-documented facts that have been widely reported on in the mass media. You can find links to specific articles on my blog in the recent article about Microsoft and GitHub, if you wish to learn specifics.

The kids are in there right now, as I write to you.

Whether or not Microsoft's provisioning of services to the government is "legal" or not is not particularly relevant to the thread, but it is interesting that you bring it up, presumably as a defense of their behavior.

Again: This is not a partisan thing. At all. Your attempt to reduce it to such is inaccurate (and, tbqf, off-topic for the thread about Microsoft-the-corporation, as well as off-topic for HN).

https://galaxypress.com/inspired-philip-k-dick/

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @12:43AM (#22601745)
Concentration camps are for political prisoners. These are not the same. And there are US citizens and children in jails and juvenile detention too, which is what happens when crimes are committed.

I'm a naturalized immigrant. I've been in far worse places than America. I suggest you visit CBP and ICE. Talk to the agents. Visit the border. See the shelters. View the damage done by criminals who prey on these people and find out how much the agents do to help them while risking their lives fighting cartels and traffickers.

Like I said, America is far softer with borders than other nations. Crossing illegally brings enforcement and penalties. I'm not sure why this is so controversial, or why protest against govt organizations is done by proxy of software companies.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by Dahoon on Monday March 16, 2020 @07:24PM (#22599423)
>That's a subjective political opinion of a far-left vocal minority

What you are talking about is Right-wing politics, even if they are extremely far to the left of your -and the majority of peoples political view -in the USA. Both parties in the US are on the right. This isn't Reddit where the state of US politics is the default norm when it differs from most of planet earth. Though HN is quickly getting there.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Monday March 16, 2020 @07:39PM (#22599560)
Open/loose borders is far left policy everywhere. Most countries are far stricter with borders than the US.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by IAmEveryone on Monday March 16, 2020 @09:00PM (#22600300)
ICE doesn't protect the border, that's United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

ICE are the goons operating everywhere (i. e. not tied to the border) rounding up "suspected illegal immigrants".

Because it isn't exactly hard to find illegal immigrants, and their charter allows them to control people without objective cause, ICE gets to arbitrarily decide whom to harass.

It's the real-life version of the perennial fear of civil libertarians that too many criminal laws will just lead to any one of us being arrested whenever it happens to be convenient for whoever is currently in power.

It isn't going to end illegal immigration, nor curtail it to any significant degree. It just serves to keep a large segment of the people who see every day in a constant state of fear, unable to (for example) seek protection from crime or exploitation for fear of being deported.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Monday March 16, 2020 @09:04PM (#22600332)
ICE is the enforcement arm for immigration, which handles people who cross the border. Obviously if there's a strong border then there's no problem in the first place.

As for the rest of your comment, this is the far-left extremist position that I cited in my first post. There's no good faith discussion to be had here.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by dragonwriter on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @12:38AM (#22601725)
> ICE is the enforcement arm for immigration, which handles people who cross the border

No, it's the enforcement arm for immigration and customs, the former of which is people who are living in the US despite not being US citizens. Enforcement of people (and goods) crossing the border is the Border Patrol and it's parent organization Customs and Border Protection.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @12:58AM (#22601830)
Sure, but the parent posts are discussing (illegal) immigration which is the jurisdiction of ICE.

There's not much controversy over the people who cross illegally but stay temporarily and close to the border. Those are just traffickers and cartels.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by ptato on Monday March 16, 2020 @08:34PM (#22600071)
I guess every person who was put in a cage near the border of the US was a huge danger.

https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border...

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Monday March 16, 2020 @09:00PM (#22600299)
To keep this as straightforward as possible: Illegal immigration is a crime and is enforced just like any other. Committing crime can mean incarceration, which many US citizens face everyday. It has nothing to do with being a "danger", but when you don't have permission to even be in the country then there's no bail or other release possible.

Also detainment centers are not cages but fenced areas with free movement inside where people receive food, shelter, healthcare, entertainment, schooling and legal services paid for by US taxpayers while their cases are processed. Detainees are free to deport themselves at any time. This is more accommodating than pretty much every other developed nation.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @12:20AM (#22601617)
Bad people exist and bad things happen in every large organization in every government of every country. It is not representative nor useful in discussing the behavior of the whole.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by vincnetas on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @02:23AM (#22602275)
Yes they do. But important part is what organisation does about that. Does it close the eyes, does it encourages it, does it publicaly removes bad people from org to send the message?
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by aredridel on Monday March 16, 2020 @11:15PM (#22601272)
Almost every word of this is a lie, misleading or poor framing.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by manigandham on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @02:26AM (#22602295)
It's 100% factual except for the last sentence which can be argued.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by allover on Monday March 16, 2020 @02:52PM (#22596083)
That's a fair point - thanks for the reminder :|
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by kevingadd on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:56PM (#22598424)
Lots of big tech firms are government contractors, and as we've seen most of them are unwilling to drop government contracts (ICE, DARPA, etc). So this problem would arise with almost any large benefactor. I would've liked to see GitHub drop ICE though, personally.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by thu2111 on Monday March 16, 2020 @05:47PM (#22598310)
Others see that as an upside. ICE today, who knows what tomorrow. The sort of activists who wanted that have all kinds of random targets. No company wants to deal with suppliers suddenly blacklisting them because the hard left decided they're evil.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by jbkiv on Monday March 16, 2020 @02:28PM (#22595733)
Agree, What would you say would have been a better outcome? Google? Facebook? Microsoft has changed quite a lot, and in a good way.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by sneak on Monday March 16, 2020 @02:38PM (#22595874)
VS Code is also spyware; I am not sure that this argument furthers your intended point.

The fact that it is open source and popular is not sufficient on its own. It had to be forked (vscodium) to show basic respect for the user’s privacy and system resources.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by Hawxy on Monday March 16, 2020 @09:33PM (#22600537)
> VS Code is also spyware

This is such an extreme & pretentious viewpoint. Microsoft knowing that I have VS Code installed & getting a report when it crashes is not in mine, or really any normal developer's threat landscape.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by snypox on Tuesday March 17, 2020 @01:48AM (#22602101)
Don’t forget you’re on HN.
Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by chrisoverzero on Monday March 16, 2020 @06:35PM (#22598875)
VSCodium say they’re not a fork.

> This is not a fork. This is a repository of scripts to automatically build Microsoft's `vscode` repository into freely-licensed binaries with a community-driven default configuration.

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by allover on Monday March 16, 2020 @02:48PM (#22596020)
It's true insofar as VS Code is widely loved by web developers.

So it "furthers my intended point".

Re:NPM Is Joining GitHub by charrondev on Monday March 16, 2020 @06:33PM (#22598861)
No fork is required. If you build before from the source in its main repo, there is no tracking included by default.

It’s builds released by Microsoft that have all of their specific stuff added in.