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Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by bluGill on Friday March 13, 2020 @10:48AM (#22567654)
I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night.

Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by Buttons840 on Friday March 13, 2020 @10:58AM (#22567741)
It would be more accurately stated:

I am allowed to remove my headlights, but I'm not allowed to drive on the roads if I have removed my headlights. The restriction is on roads.

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by notriddle on Friday March 13, 2020 @09:13PM (#22572306)
Okay, how about this one?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to replace the GFCI outlets in my bathroom with non-GFCI outlets.

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by rleigh on Saturday March 14, 2020 @08:54AM (#22574934)
This misses the fundamental point being discussed.

Having the right to modify and repair does not mean a carte blanche to ignore and circumvent building and electrical regulations. You do have the right to remove, replace or add additional outlets providing that the regulations are complied with, and you can purchase outlets from any vendor which sells products compliant with the regulations.

Availability of first-party and third-party parts would greatly open up the market for electronic goods of all kinds. So long as they comply with the necessary regulations and perform equivalently to the original parts, it would be a vast improvement upon the current state of affairs.

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by myopenid on Saturday March 14, 2020 @11:24AM (#22575926)
Right to repair, not right to break the law and regulation.
Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by cs702 on Friday March 13, 2020 @10:53AM (#22567687)
Of course, but note that in both of your examples those limits are in place to make sure you don't inflict significant costs or damages on the rest of humankind. The limits you mention prevent you from making roads unsafe for everyone else at night and from poisoning the ground on which everyone else lives.
Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by vorpalhex on Friday March 13, 2020 @11:04AM (#22567803)
> I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night.

The issue there is driving at night on public roads. You can, with your own car, remove your headlights. The car manufacturer can't show up and sue you for that.

> I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass

That's not the only thing it would destroy (ground water, local wildlife, etc). You are allowed to style your hedges in the shape of a middle finger, or pluck all your grass out blade by blade (save for any HOA restrictions you agreed to).

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by herbstein on Friday March 13, 2020 @10:58AM (#22567742)
You're completely right. The distinction is that it's not the firm building your house forbidding you from pouring oil on the grass. It's government regulation. The same approach should be towards people, as an example, modifying the radio in their phones.
Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by magduf on Friday March 13, 2020 @01:13PM (#22569003)
One distinction I see is between repair and modification.

If you own your car, and the headlight burns out, why shouldn't you be allowed to repair it back to the original factory state? Why should you be forced to pay someone else to do this?

If someone tries to argue that you're going to do it wrong, it seems like the onus should be on them to prove that your repair was bad and dangerous.

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by robert_foss on Friday March 13, 2020 @10:59AM (#22567746)
I understand what you are saying, but pouring oil into the ground or driving without headlights is against the common interests of most people.

Being able to repair things is very different, it is _in_ the common interest and likely against the interests of the manufacturers.

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by chongli on Friday March 13, 2020 @11:16AM (#22567910)
Well, there are potential issues with people repairing their own phones. They could use the wrong (or counterfeit) part and cause the phone to emit radiation that interferes with nearby communications. Or they could use the wrong (or counterfeit) battery or even damage the battery during replacement, potentially causing a fire hazard.
Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by simion314 on Friday March 13, 2020 @12:37PM (#22568680)
The purpose is not for you to fix your phone motherboard, a competent repair person with access to tools, schematics and repair software would do that. If bad quality of batteries are on the market the solution for fixing that is not to prevent people replacing the phone batteries, it would be like if bad petrol is sold somewhere and then car manufacturers use it as an excuse to force you to buy "genuime petrol" so your engine would continue to work.

Also if we want to prevent fires because of batteries then we should make Apple products illegal because it happened that Apple products had issues too https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by robert_foss on Friday March 13, 2020 @11:44AM (#22568135)
Typically people aren't replacing the antennas or radio amps, so I'd keep the radiation issue in the theoretical bin.

As for bad parts and bad repair jobs, sure. I would think that owners are incentivized to buy parts that are safe and to install them correctly. Of course some battery batches will be bad, but that's true for authentic parts too. Remember the Samsung Note battery issues?

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by bo1024 on Friday March 13, 2020 @11:30AM (#22568037)
I think this discussion got off-track. The question is about whether the company that sold you the car is allowed to impose EULA-type limits on how you modify, use, or resell it, above and beyond safety laws that apply equally to ever person and product.
Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by jolmg on Friday March 13, 2020 @01:04PM (#22568939)
> I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass.

I believe there are technical differences in how ownership of the land works in different jurisdictions throughout the world. The land or the earth below your grass might not be as yours as an article of clothing you're wearing.

Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by ajayyy on Friday March 13, 2020 @10:58AM (#22567743)
You are allowed to remove the headlights, you just can't drive it on public roads
Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by m463 on Friday March 13, 2020 @08:41PM (#22572089)
likely at night.
Re:Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets by m463 on Friday March 13, 2020 @08:40PM (#22572086)
A more compelling argument might be -- what things are you not permitted to do to your home or car because of a private entity such as the manufacturer.