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Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by UncleOxidant on Monday March 09, 2020 @02:46PM (#22528383)
Sure, but the old "you can't time the market" maxim goes both ways. How would I have known to get my emergency fund out at exactly the right time? Remember, this is my emergency fund. I've got other investment money earmarked for investing. But for emergencies it's cash in the bank. That way I'm not having to pull money out of the market when the market is down. And it's when the market is down that you're more likely to lose your job, for example.
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by ping_pong on Monday March 09, 2020 @02:53PM (#22528466)
People who say your emergency fund should be in the markets don't have any realistic life experiences. You're doing the right thing by leaving it in cash.
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by UncleOxidant on Monday March 09, 2020 @02:55PM (#22528480)
I'm guessing most people who say the emergency fund should be in the market are under 40.

I say this because it's been over 10 years now since the last recession and a lot of folks under 30 haven't experienced one since they've been out on their own. They haven't experienced a prolonged bear market. Folks over 40 can remember the tech wreck (2001-2003ish) the housing bubble implosion (2008-2012ish). Folks over about 55 can recall how bad the late 70s, early 80s were.

And then there's just stuff that's not related to the economy. Life happens. Emergency appendectomies. A family member gets diagnosed with cancer. You burn out on your profession. The longer you live the more of this kind of stuff you've experienced.

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by basch on Monday March 09, 2020 @04:48PM (#22529618)
My understanding of investing savings is that it is still diversified, not all in on the S&P500.

Something like the golden butterfly with a cash component, would allow you to spend the cash first. Then you could choose if you want to deplete an asset that hasn't plummeted, or withdraw from each category equally.

https://portfoliocharts.com/portfolio/golden-butterfly/

You could also use something like a Line of Credit against your stock. Both Schwab and M1 offer it. That way you can spend in an emergency, and hopefully your growth rate offsets the interest rate.

https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/pledged...

https://www.m1finance.com/articles-1/portfolio-line-of-credi...

"With M1 Borrow, you can borrow up to 35% of your invested portfolio at a 3.50% interest rate instantly (2.75% if you are using M1 Plus). There's never been such a low cost, convenient, and flexible way to borrow money."

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by craftyguy on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:01PM (#22528541)
I'm guessing you have no basis for this comment, and are just trolling age discrimination.
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by tootie on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:17PM (#22528706)
I'm in my 40s. My "emergency fund" was up like 200% then back down 15% of that high. Selling now at the bottom I'm still way, way ahead of where I'd be if I just had it in a savings account. I'd have to go calculate how far back I'd have to go to have beaten interest rates, but it's probably not more than 2 years or so.
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by toolz on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:04PM (#22528574)
I can move my money out of the market in approximately 3 days. Exactly which life experience is going to teach me I need quicker access than that?

As for volatility of the market I accommodate for that by having well over twice as much as I need in investments that I can liquidate.

The end result if I project using historical data is that I'm much wealthier.

If the market crashes to the point people aren't buying S&P500 index funds I highly doubt people with money in the bank are going to be in any better of a position than myself.

If it continues on trend, I'll stand to do better than them though.

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by Jtsummers on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:12PM (#22528658)
How much money are you moving out of the market in 3 days? If you invest your e-fund, you've lost value over the past couple of weeks. And removing it now means, especially if you've been investing over the past couple years, selling at a loss. It's better to let that money ride so it can recoup value when the markets recover, and use cash (hopefully not sitting under a mattress) to cover emergencies.

The actual ways to use cash are to find high-yield savings accounts (over the past few years some online accounts have hit 2.5-3%, though that's not common), CDs (which again you've had to go with online-only accounts to get decent returns), or some forms of bonds. These offer guaranteed returns (or at least guaranteed not to lose you anything) which is exactly what you want for your e-fund.

Absolutely invest the rest and reap the rewards (or losses, but over a couple decades should be rewards). But it's a good idea to leave the e-fund in a more stable form. Don't be like my colleague in 2008/2009 who went from being worth almost a million to being worth 200k and needing the money. He couldn't let it sit and recoup value, he just lost. His retirement was pushed out years as a result.

Admittedly, his retirement still would've been pushed 1-3 years anyways due to the financial need at the time. But he used almost half his investment's value at that point ($100k), which in a few years would've been back to $500k or so in value. If he'd even had $50k in cash (less than his annual net income), he would've only lost a quarter of his investments instead of half.

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by toolz on Monday March 09, 2020 @04:34PM (#22529459)
> How much money are you moving out of the market in 3 days?

It's an emergency fund - likely not much. Maybe a few grand at most in that amount of time?

> and needing the money.

Unless the market cuts in half over-night I'll have the money. That's why I have twice as much as I need in that bucket.

I've not really heard any compelling reason why I should move to a savings account. Yeah I might make more if the market takes an unprecedented long term decline, but realistically I'll make well over twice as much returns as I would that savings account.

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by twblalock on Monday March 09, 2020 @02:49PM (#22528428)
> That way I'm not having to pull money out of the market when the market is down.

If your money had been in the market, it would have gone up and then down. You might end up with more money in the end than if you had never invested.

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by Jtsummers on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:17PM (#22528699)
They didn't say they never invested. They said they don't invest their e-fund. That's a very different thing and it's dishonest to try and conflate the two ideas.
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by twblalock on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:26PM (#22528791)
> They didn't say they never invested. They said they don't invest their e-fund. That's a very different thing and it's dishonest to try and conflate the two ideas.

I never said otherwise and you should retract your accusation of dishonesty.

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by Jtsummers on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:37PM (#22528916)
Quoting you:

> You might end up with more money in the end than if you had never invested.

My reading of your comment was perhaps too harsh, but your statement implied to my initial reading as if the parent said they never invested. Which is not at all what they said, but rather that they kept cash in the bank and a separate amount invested. The cash is to avoid the risks of market timing (you can't do it, basically). People are getting lucky that right now they're still ahead on their investments. But there's no guarantee that will remain true over the next month or two when the money is actually needed.

And if you look at the S&P and Dow, the past 2 years are basically all lost if you had to sell right now. There was a dip in early 2019, but most of the past two years were above today's prices for both indexes. So you can plan on being lucky, or you can set aside a relatively small amount and actually plan.

Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by twblalock on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:42PM (#22528976)
You replied to my comment with the least charitable interpretation of what I wrote, which is against the guidelines. You also accused me of dishonesty.
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by gowld on Monday March 09, 2020 @02:47PM (#22528402)
The point is that even pulling out at the worst possible time is still better than having never been in it.
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by UncleOxidant on Monday March 09, 2020 @02:52PM (#22528460)
Again: This is my emergency fund. This is my "the shit has hit the fan and it's all gone to hell" (like with a global pandemic, for example) fund. I'm not gonna gamble with the emergency fund. You may. I do not. We have no idea how bad this could get. As I mentioned above, I have other money that I do invest in the market, but I keep a year's worth of expenses in cash (edit: and some in iBonds, but most of that was put in years ago when the yields were higher.)
Re:Ask HN: How are you preparing yourself for a recession? by p1esk on Monday March 09, 2020 @03:42PM (#22528975)
That point is absurd. You can easily lose everything you invested.