News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by masklinn on Sunday March 08, 2020 @02:33PM (#22519661)
> Truck driver. Not quibbling, just adding nuance.

You're absolutely quibbling though.

> So you should include in your calculations that the load is spread out over eighteen tires, as above.

The fourth power rule is specifically about axle load, not about wheel load. It's also an estimate / rule of thumb (which is why it's so useful), not a precision instrument.

But hey if you want more precision than the FPR we can do more precision: https://pavementinteractive.org/reference-desk/design/design...

As the link notes, road engineers usually work in LEF/ESAL (ratio to a standardised 18000lbs axle load), and provides some conversion tables.

Assuming a relatively large 4000lbs sedan this is 2000 lbs per axle, or 2x0.0003 LEF = 0.0006 LEF.

A fully loaded truck would be ~0.3 for the 12000lbs front axle, and 1.11 for each of the rear tandem axles, for a total of 2.52 LEF.

2.52 / 0.0006 = 4200. Which shows that the fourth power rule's 4096 was pretty close but if anything underselling it.

Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by a3n on Sunday March 08, 2020 @06:58PM (#22521258)
> The fourth power rule is specifically about axle load, not about wheel load.

Misunderstood that, sorry.

Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by reitzensteinm on Sunday March 08, 2020 @10:07PM (#22522294)
No, parent is mistaken. The forth power rule bakes in an assumption of dual tires at each end of an axle.
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by jessaustin on Sunday March 08, 2020 @03:14PM (#22519907)
Yeah, they use dual tires so that they don't pop catastrophically, not to spare the road from wear.
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by a3n on Sunday March 08, 2020 @06:54PM (#22521231)
That's been the benefit to me, still having a drivable rig when a tire shreds.

But, there is also something called a "super single" that's a double wide single wheel/tire, with one on the end of an axle rather than two. I'm told they're cheaper and lighter total, as opposed to the more common two per end. I've pulled a few trailers that had them. I don't really know why one or the other, I just drive them.

Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by reitzensteinm on Sunday March 08, 2020 @04:16PM (#22520293)
I'm sure that's true, but are you saying it doesn't reduce wear?
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by jessaustin on Sunday March 08, 2020 @11:05PM (#22522619)
It probably reduces wear slightly. Increasing contact area necessarily decreases applied pressure. Then again, a wider effective contact profile damages more of the road than a narrower one would.

Let's not forget the context of this discussion, however. Fourth power expressions are still fourth power expressions after multiplication by a constant factor. 4/18 is a constant factor.

Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by reitzensteinm on Sunday March 08, 2020 @11:37PM (#22522789)
You're multiplying the input by a constant factor. If wear is proportional to (weight per tire)^4, and you've halved weight per tire by having twice as many, you've just reduced wear to 6% of its original value.

I don't know if doubling tire counts really does this, but it's hard to see why twice as many axles would help but tires per axle would not. It's possible (the pressure underneath the tires is reduced, but the tires exerting pressure on the road are closer together) but counter intuitive to say the least.

And there's no proof in this thread that it doesn't help except for masklinn's misinterpretation of the original study.

Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by jessaustin on Monday March 09, 2020 @12:45PM (#22526840)
Also, road wear is a function of friction as well as pressure. Friction is increased with additional tires.
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by reitzensteinm on Monday March 09, 2020 @04:06PM (#22529197)
This is already taken in to account with the forth power rule, isn't it?
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by reitzensteinm on Monday March 09, 2020 @08:37PM (#22531536)
Fourth :)
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by masklinn on Sunday March 08, 2020 @04:30PM (#22520393)
I'm sure it reduces wear on the tires.
Re:Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions? by reitzensteinm on Sunday March 08, 2020 @09:56PM (#22522241)
"The AASHTO load-equivalency factors strictly apply only to axles supported at each end by dual tires. Recent increase in steering-axle loadings and more extensive use of single tires on load-bearing axles have precipitated efforts to examine the effect on pavement wear of substituting single for dual tires."

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/tswstudy/TSWwp3.pdf