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Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @02:54AM (#22462505)
I totally quit television about a year ago, and it had a very noticeable positive impact on me. I also mostly quit Facebook with the end of last year. I say mostly, because I still use its event calendar, and occasionally check my stream. But I significantly reduced the amount of comments I leave on that platform.

I feel like, while the criticism of FaceBook, Twitter, Reddit and co is pretty much warranted, we managed to push aside the biggest time sink we already have since the 60s. TV, and Netflix, for that matter, is wasting our time since many many years.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by tyfon on Monday March 02, 2020 @04:57AM (#22463049)
I stopped watching regular TV around 2005 due to the influx of "reality-tv" and other crappy formats. What I used to watch before was real documentaries on discovery and it's family of channels.

Now I just watch Festival of Science or Royal Institution lectures on YouTube and some anime on wakanim :)

There are also a lot of real in-class lectures filmed on various topic on YouTube that I find very nice.

I don't miss regular TV at all.

I quit facebook around 2012 (deleted and purged the accont by waiting 6 months) and I don't miss that either. I still have contact with the friends that I care about via phone, I just don't look at their fake lives on facebook anymore.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by a3n on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:07AM (#22464012)
I vaguely think I stopped watching TV, modulo Netflix, around the same time as you. Now when I see it in a trucker's break room or similar, it strikes me as shockingly vacuous, and so filled with commercials.

And now I'm living the irony, driving a truck and hauling all that stuff that the TV is waving in front of us. Just as some of you are living the irony, spending your hard earned educations building the infrastructure that implements the waving.

"Now:" I'm pulling a trailer from Illinois to Ohio, filled with "cereal, dry," from a maker to a big box chain's distribution center. Eat up! Eat!

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by blaser-waffle on Monday March 02, 2020 @11:26AM (#22465795)
> I vaguely think I stopped watching TV, modulo Netflix, around the same time as you. Now when I see it in a trucker's break room or similar, it strikes me as shockingly vacuous, and so filled with commercials.

Third'd. I cut the cord years back mostly as a consequence of doing the digital nomad thing. I agree with the shocking vicious part. It reminds me of getting crab cakes on the east coast -- in the 90s it was mostly lumps of tasty crab with a little bread, and now it's mostly bread with a little crumb of crab. TV feels the same -- mostly BS with a few shrinking nuggets of entertainment. No wonder Netflix and other streaming services are going strong.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by tyfon on Monday March 02, 2020 @10:22AM (#22465101)
Talk about it lol.

I'm in the business of lending money to the people who buy all the things you haul.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by Mr_qwerty on Monday March 02, 2020 @10:11AM (#22465016)
To digress, I'm curious about your life as a truck driver. What do you do with all the time in the truck? Podcasts? shortwave radio? And what are your thoughts about the industry as a whole?
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by a3n on Monday March 02, 2020 @10:33AM (#22465204)
Gonna have to answer later today, I want to be further on before I relax and think. (And I guess that's the first part of the answer.)
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by a3n on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:13PM (#22470906)
I was a software dev and SWQA since 1988, with a few years taken off in the middle to deal with some externalities.

I rage-quit my last SWQA job, then discovered that a 60+ year old B player ought not to have done that. And so I drive.

What do I do with all the time in the truck? Drive, watch the road, watch out for you all (you all are cray, and are probably gonna die, I'm just sayin'). Watch my time from various perspectives: time/miles to pickup, time/miles to delivery, time left on my allowed driving time, gallons of diesel remaining, will I make it on time, do I have to warn of late arrival, should I pull off and shut down for wind, rain, snow, ice, fatigue, when will the local troopers open the highway to trucks again, am I speeding or following too close, am I holding people up behind me, are you f'ing tailgating me, are my brakes on fire, what's going on way up there (I can see pretty far with my head ten feet off the ground) ...

I don't care what you're doing in your car, and I virtually never look, except once in awhile I'll look at your head (or search my spider sense) to see if you're paying attention. To the road. Not to your phone.

When I'm not doing that stuff: I don't have a CB radio. Sometimes I don't play any audio and just think, or enjoy the scenery. It's an incredibly beautiful and interesting country. Sometimes I chase NPR across the radio. Wyoming is a pretty good state for NPR, because they have translators all over. Once in awhile I'll drive through a college or tribal radio station that really does just play what they feel like, those are good.

Sometimes Pandora. I've been trying to listen to podcasts, but it's not a great experience. I can't seem to manage podcasts via Pandora or Spotify very well. I don't like pre-downloading, I'd like to just listen via a stream (most recently VLC on Android, bluetooth to my radio, but the casts often just end in the middle (lost cell signal?) and go to the next one).

My thoughts on the industry as a whole are, I can only see a tiny sliver of the industry. There seems to be an infinite number of ways to get stuff from here to there, and all I really know is working as a "solo" (not part of a two person team), "company driver" (not an owner-operator) for one of the large truck companies.

When I started two years ago there was a huge trucker shortage. Now some companies have gone out of business, but "they" say that it'll pick up again soon. I believe large companies are still hiring, because industry turnover is huge. Lots of people decide they don't like it. I like it a lot.

It's a really good job for me, as I'm not very sociable. I'll go months without going home (divorced, one grown son). Most long distance drivers take 3 or 4 days a month in "home time." Some drivers are regional or local and they're naturally home more often and more regularly.

I drive a 2017 Kenworth T-680, 15 liter straight-six Cummins engine, 10 speed Eton automatic. I mostly pull "dry vans," the 53 foot closed rectangular trailers that you mostly see. Sometimes I'll pull a "reefer," refrigerated trailer, basically the same as a dry van but you also have to pay attention to the reefer operation and temperatures (multiple compartments inside the trailer).

I typically have about an hour of time at the end of the day, and an hour in the morning. Sometimes a little more. Rarely a lot more, when the company hasn't found any freight for me to haul. The longest I've spent without freight has been a weekend, and that's rare. I only get paid for miles driven in service of an assigned trip.

During my typical two +/- hours/day I eat, clean, read, communicate with the fam. I've written hundreds of emails home, with pictures, and I'm trying to clean some of those up to get them posted at a location to be named later. In my free time.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by jvagner on Monday March 02, 2020 @12:16PM (#22466387)
Here's how I've managed my social:

* Deleted Facebook. Don't miss it one bit.

* Deleted Reddit. I open the app every once in a while, scan what's popular. But not a lot.

* Pruned twitter. I don't follow anyone on Twitter anymore, save my partner. I deleted all my posts, going back to the beginning. I don't read it anymore, but I've preserved my username.

* Kept Instagram. I like following certain people in places around the world I have a travel connection too. And certain athletes in sports I follow.

And so... If there's no benefit to posting -- there's very little inclination to consume. No arguing, no triggering, no pavlov-ian itch.

I post to Instagram, I post a little bit here on YC. This leveling keeps the "push for pellet", or "pull down for more content" habits very minimal.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by Angostura on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:14AM (#22463412)
I don't think there's any particular need to cold-turkey quit watching TV, just to be a little strict with yourself about what you watch.

Similarly with Facebook; I use it but I don't follow friends particularly - I follow pages, mainly a useful local neighbourhood page that mainly seems to concentrate on who has lost a cat and who can recomnend a plumbe. Similarly with Reddit, just select a few decent subs that you are interested in.

I look at Fscebook every couple of weeks. Reddit - too frequently.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by Retric on Monday March 02, 2020 @07:00AM (#22463666)
There is nothing to cold turkey about TV. I got cable to watch the olympics a few years ago and found nothing else worth watching for months. I used to watch various documentaries on the History channel, but now it’s full of ancient aliens crap. I think my demographic left and they just stopped producing content for US.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by philpem on Monday March 02, 2020 @07:10AM (#22463705)
I feel the same way. Haven't had linear satellite/cable in years. Gave it up in my teens. Since then I've moved over to science videos and the like (NileRed, Nurdrage, RI Lectures) and metalworking/machining. Things you'd never in a million years see on cable TV.

For all its faults - Youtube has a lot of factual content produced by people who want to share their cool hobbies with the world.

The thing I really want to give up next is Twitter. Or at least my 3,000-follower public account. It started out with finding like-minded friends, but quickly turned into a place where I can't even say "I find WD40 often works better than cutting fluid when machining aluminium" without being jumped on.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by VLM on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:16AM (#22464083)
If you like NileRed I think you'd enjoy "Applied Science" and maybe "Cody's Lab". "Scrap Science" is pretty good, I felt bad for the guy after spending a year failing to make heavy water. I spent a couple years in a chemistry lab and that guy's "bathtub chemist" techniques make me cringe but it all generally works out, well, aside from failing to make heavy water. The "Hydraulic Press Channel" is very tangential but semi-related, and "Practical Engineering" and "Steve Mould" are a little light weight but enjoyable. "The Backyard Scientist" is mostly "things that go boom" along the lines of turn of the century Mythbusters, but is still kinda fun.

By "RI Lectures" do you mean the channel with the actual youtube name of "The Royal Institution"? If so, I think the across the pond competitor is "MIT OpenCourseWare" although I find it far easier to download MIT OCW videos from archive.org than trying to find and stream them and keep track of which I've seen.

I've had the interesting experience of learning Linear Algebra from Strang's textbooks a long time ago, then watching his lectures to refresh my memory. You can do something similar with Automata Theory and Ullman via a MOOC, or at least you could a couple years ago.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by philpem on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:49AM (#22464360)
You've more or less posted my entire Youtube subscriptions list there!

Applied Science (Ben Krasnow) is one of my favourites. Cody's fantastic too, for the backyard-science angle. I find Hydraulic Press a bit too "let's break stuff and laugh", but it's fun to watch and switch off for a few spare minutes. Same for Backyard Scientist ;)

Post-Apocalyptic Inventor is good for my scrapyard-challenge-but-real fix.

My real hook at the moment is How To Make Everything. He starts with Stone-age technology and shows the progression from there. It's fascinating to see how we got from "there" to "here" with a series of successive discoveries and refinements.

BosnianBill's Locklab, Locknoob and Lockpicking Lawyer are other favourites (but then, I've always found security tech interesting).

I've got an interest in retrocomputing so LGR, Modern Vintage Gamer, Adrian's Digital Basement and CuriousMarc are on there too.

I do mean the Royal Institution's official Youtube channel, yes. I started watching for Andrew Szydlo's chemistry demos and stayed for the other content!

I've heard of MIT OCW (since the original announcement popping up on Slashdot), but never really looked into what was available. Perhaps I should!

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by VLM on Monday March 02, 2020 @09:27AM (#22464670)
I like how "Applied Science" sends down interesting rabbit holes. One minute I'm watching homemade photochromic glass adventures, next I enjoy three hours of enjoyable clicking thru wikipedia and other internet links.

Yes the Hydraulic Press guys have a lot of "boom ha ha" content but they sometimes have more intellectual content such as "We're going to make homemade particle board out of sawdust" and I'm like, no, you're not, I know its way to complicated, but its fun to watch them try and be partially successful.

If you like retrocomputing, then "Moshix" channel will provide a couple hundred hours of mainframe content. The editing is slightly off, moves too slow during non-interactive content such as watching scripts run, and too fast during interactive content while hand editing JCL and typing sysprog tasks in general. Just because you CAN type 100+ wpm doesn't mean its a good idea during a screencast. The content is very compelling, regardless of editing decisions.

Something I don't like about retrocomputing is stuff I started out doing is now considered retro. Or even worse, stuff that was futuristic when I had a couple years in, is also considered retro. I guess getting old beats the alternative.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by tyfon on Monday March 02, 2020 @10:25AM (#22465131)
Thanks both of you, I've padded my own subscription list today :)

The thing about YouTube vs regular TV is that _I_ chose what to watch not someone else. I also chose the time to watch it.

Slightly OT, but the host of the original Scrapheap Challenge show is now hosting an EV YouTube channel called "Fully Charged Show" :)

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by VLM on Monday March 09, 2020 @08:07AM (#22524710)
LOL sorry for the late post, but you got me, I was thinking you meant Cathy Rogers the combined producer actor, but its actually Mr Llewellyn (who is also interesting to watch).

Ms Rogers was very interesting to watch as she is near prototypical "maker culture" in the sense of artist-trying-to-do-STEM (IIRC she's a successful musician) but technically predates popular "maker culture" by about a decade. Sometimes seems old fashioned or retro in 2020, but was extremely futuristic around the turn of the century.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by xivzgrev on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:43AM (#22462729)
I personally don’t find TV a time waster. If you enjoy it, as I do, then do it, guilt-free.

However if you find yourself addicted ie you want to do other things but you keep getting “sucked in” then by all means stop - it will have a noticeably positive impact.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @04:16AM (#22462873)
I wasn't feeling like TV directly prevented me from doing anything else, but it still felt like a big relief when I finally sold my TV. It didn't feel like it was stealing any of my time, still, my daily activities at home changed to something that feels much more productive and healthy. I read more, and spend more time with my personal projects. TV is sneaky, you don't realize how much time of your life it consumes.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by brianmcc on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:12AM (#22463398)
Glad the change is working for you. There's definitely such a thing as overdoing TV binges. But all of us need to be cautious about ditching a legitimate entertainment and relaxation medium because it's not "productive", productivity isn't the only goal in life. It's OK to chill out and recharge!

(Not in any way criticising you - just the community here often appears obsessed with maximising personal output and I think jeez just relax sometimes guys!!)

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by rubidium on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:19AM (#22463447)
The bigger point is TV is a poor way to ‘chill and recharge’. It zaps your creative process, deadens your judgment, and isolates you from those around.

Reading, conversation with friends/family, poetry, painting, sitting and enjoying a good meal/cigar etc... all have the quality of chill and recharge without the negative effects of TV.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by wgerard on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:56AM (#22464414)
I'll go out on a limb here and defend TV: I think this is a somewhat-outdated view of television.

Modern television isn't just The Big Bang Theory anymore. The line between cinema and television is quickly blurring, with television shows like Chernobyl that are essentially very long films. Even "regular television" can be incredibly enlightening, with shows like Planet Earth exposing us to parts of our own world we might never see otherwise and our imagination might not even do justice!

And much like cinema, sure the experience itself is somewhat isolating in that you're trying to pay attention to it and not converse with those around you. But what's beneficial about some television shows are the emotions they inspire, the conversation they generate after, the fantastical thoughts that come later while you process what you saw.

Sure, garbage exists on television in the same way that pulp fiction (i.e. low-quality literature) never really died out. But I don't think it's fair to dismiss the medium any more than it's fair to dismiss film or literature.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by brianmcc on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:40AM (#22464281)
Yeah I don't see it as competing with other "wholesome" activities (cigars?!), just: don't beat yourself up for enjoying a bit of low-effort, passive entertainment!

Personally I find decent TV shows a great way to unwind after a busy day, but of course YMMV.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:19AM (#22463449)
Maybe I didnt express myself well enough. I didn't raise the issue of spending too much time in front of television to promote 24/7 productivity, not at all. I know quite well how important it is to just chill out and wind down. However, most TV programs that I was watching before I quit it completely felt like they were slowly poisoning me with stupidity. It is really the lack of quality and frankly, intelligence, that drove me away from classical TV.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by brianmcc on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:42AM (#22464309)
Sounds like we are in agreement. And yes there's a world of difference between world-class TV drama and the dross that fills much of the airwaves that frankly perhaps should come with some sort of health warning...
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by oklol123 on Monday March 02, 2020 @07:14AM (#22463723)
I don’t agree. Watching tv and browsing social media just temporarily heightens the mood, but then tampers of very quickly. That time could be spend doing something useful like following a hobby, because that increases overall happiness.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by SolaceQuantum on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:55AM (#22464411)
Arguably, framing someone's life behavior as functions of usefulness is antithetical to the need to engage in recreation. The following of TV is useful if your social sphere is amongst other people who watch TV. It builds a canon in which to socialize, discuss, invite people for watching parties, etc.

(I myself do not watch tv but I also have no desire to presume anything of people who do. I at least personally acutely feel a loss of culture because TV and movie watching is very common in socialization rituals and I am unable to engage in them.)

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by oklol123 on Tuesday March 03, 2020 @01:41AM (#22472344)
There are better ways to socialize and watching television should be the last one. Talking with other people about movies and television shows is superficial and won’t help in bonding with them, because your personality lacks depth.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by dageshi on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:21AM (#22464124)
People have said this about every media since the book was invented.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by Minor49er on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:55AM (#22464408)
Is it wrong, though? If you spend all day doing nothing but reading books, you're not using the time to apply anything that you have read in a book
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by vidanay on Monday March 02, 2020 @12:28PM (#22466519)
That's how I feel about programming books.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by josinalvo on Monday March 02, 2020 @09:30AM (#22464693)
Did someone measure it and proved them wrong?

I am not saying you are wrong, or he is, but the ancientness of the claim is not an argument in favor or against it

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by jfengel on Monday March 02, 2020 @12:33PM (#22466581)
Both function much like a drug: pleasant in small quantities, but easily creating a feedback loop that results in it dominating your behavior. Some people appear to be more susceptible to it than others.

The neural mechanisms have a lot in common. Video games, I would note, also share that mechanism.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by OscarTheGrinch on Monday March 02, 2020 @04:02AM (#22462814)
I take ~1 hour of TV most evenings as a sedative.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by bedobi on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:19AM (#22462623)
Same here! I haven't had a TV in many years and since quitting the news (on every medium) I'm much happier and have much more time and energy to devote to fun and productive things.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by cocoto on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:48AM (#22462743)
I don't think browsing a website named Hacker NEWS is really "quitting the news (on every medium)".
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by bedobi on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:31AM (#22463513)
Haha granted, I do enjoy Hacker News, because it's just random interesting links, not politics or current events, which is what I'm very deliberately chosing to cut out.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by Angostura on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:15AM (#22463421)
How do you know what is going on in the world around you? Or don't you realy care that much?
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by karatestomp on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:34AM (#22464231)
What’s going on in the world is rarely useful to know, unless you’re talking about weather and traffic reports. Keeping up with it every day is just another entertainment hobby, like watching home remodeling shows or whatever. It’s fine, but only marginally useful or improving.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by bedobi on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:37AM (#22463541)
I used to hyperconsume news but concluded that news just isn't really a good way to know what's going on in the world. It's mostly alarmist outrage devoid of any meaning.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:23AM (#22463470)
Wow, I typically only get that question from people way older then 70 years... That feels weird, to read this on HN. No, sorry, I don't need a TV just to get a few news bites daily. There are other ways to stay up to date.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by scatters on Monday March 02, 2020 @07:20AM (#22463754)
> There are other ways to stay up to date.

Right, that was the question. What do you use to stay informed?

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @07:37AM (#22463835)
I have my alarm set to a high quality radio station at the time their morning news show starts. This is a 5 minute news show that condenses the essential things of the day. If I feel like I need to know more about a specific event, I typically browse a news site with my phone while walking to work. That is enough to be able to follow the typical smalltalk once I hit the workplace.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by a3n on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:14AM (#22464065)
I used to have my clock radio set to a news station. One morning the first thing I heard was about a massacre in Seattle's International District (their "Chinatown"); thirteen people murdered IIRC.

I don't do that anymore.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by everdrive on Monday March 02, 2020 @02:50PM (#22468176)
I ended up finding youtube even more addicting than regular TV or netflix. This shouldn't be surprising, but I had to take steps to mitigate my Youtube intake all the same.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by ygggvg on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:03AM (#22462549)
Wasting our time? Why would you think it is wasting time?
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:12AM (#22462591)
time spent in a way that made you feel good isn't wasted. maybe it had no economic output but that isn't a waste.

But the long term benefit of TV/Video isn't a diet that's good for you. Consider all the things you could do (not "achieve") if you'd use it for reading books, travel, learning a language or art. What this medium robs you of is boredom, which maybe feels great in the short run, but is hugely damaging to your creativity, focus and (probably even) mental health.

When I deleted facebook I noticed a huge improvement, but also I shifted my attention to other things which are equally addictive (HN, and my "personal information pipeline"). So like when I stopped smoking and moved to caffeine and sugar I substituted my FB addiction with other forms of unhealthy consumption. Getting rid of FB is therefore easy but getting rid of the underlying addiction is _really_ hard.

Sitting alone in a room with your thoughts is almost impossible (for most). Try it for a couple of days! Do nothing - not even reading a book you'll feel like you're going insane!

What works though is taking really long walks, or going out to nature for a few weeks (or months) and being on your own. You won't feel bored for long I'll promise! The most awesome memories I personally have are from things that made zero sense (and often in the most terrible circumstances).

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @04:55AM (#22463042)
> time spent in a way that made you feel good isn't wasted

I am not sure this sentence is universally true. I'd like to remind you about the experiment with mice that got a button to trigger their own happiness center... They end up pressing that button, until they die from lack of food.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by sobani on Friday March 06, 2020 @08:13AM (#22503263)
IIRC those mice were also locked up in drab cages. And the experiment was redone in a more natural environment (for example other mice to interact with) were they didn't show this behavior.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday March 02, 2020 @05:21AM (#22463175)
true. also drugs usually feel great. there seems to be a cost for feeling great, e.g. you can't have feeling great/happy without sometimes feeling down/sad. how would one even understand the concept of happiness or being fulfilled if they have never experienced the other side.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by Ntrails on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:24AM (#22462649)
I have never understood why people claim reading is a more worthy use of time than watching tv. Love island probably teaches people more about the human condition than fifty shades does, so pick your poison
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by coffeefirst on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:21AM (#22464121)
Because it's not actually about "optimizing time," it's about a feeling. A lot of people find themselves in a pattern where they binge-watch a show they don't really even like to fill time. Likewise with social media, at some point you're not sure why you're even doing it. Likewise for people who cut back on video games.

It's the behavior, not the medium, that gives this uneasy feeling all of your time is going to a thing that you didn't mean to spend it on.

On the other hand, if you find yourself sucked into a book for a weekend, odds are it's because you can't put it down and will regret nothing. Nobody binge-reads bad books.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:45AM (#22462735)
most books that have been published in the past 100 years will disappear because they aren't worth the e-/paper they're written on. What makes reading more valuable for your brain is that it requires active engagement. films might be valuable too (I love films such as sci-fi, crime and comedy) - but binging 6 hrs on movies/shows every days is sure not as valuable as reading 6 hrs every day.

It becomes even more damaging when the screen is your only window into the world. e.g. we work in front of a screen all day, then on the way home metro/train or whatever hold a phone to check up on social-media, then after dinner switch on the TV. No wonder so many (young!) people are isolated. (young is especially shocking. I'm old and it's normal for me to be alone. Guess men are terribly at socializing. But seeing so many kids end up lonely and isolated is pretty sad)

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by Ntrails on Monday March 02, 2020 @07:36AM (#22463826)
> binging 6 hrs on movies/shows every days is sure not as valuable as reading 6 hrs every day.

Citation needed

All reading is not inherently valuable, in the same way all television is not. I don't get any more socialisation from reading a book, and indeed unlike e.g. watching TV with housemates/family it's an entirely isolated non-social activity.

Now, if we're talking solely about _children_ then i will give the act of reading additional value due to reading comprehension being a key skill that they need to improve! But mine isn't getting any better at this point, certainly not by reading the same old trash I always do.

"TV bad, Books good" is just a weird generalisation that sticks in my craw and I've never seen a believable piece of evidence for it

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by vidarh on Monday March 02, 2020 @04:23AM (#22462903)
Most of my sons screen time is spent socializing. He rarely watches TV, but he spends a lot of time in multiplayer games where he is simultaneously on discord and building friendships. Yes, he needs face to face socialization too, and he gets plenty of that at school and various other activities, but the point being that screen time can be very passive or it can be active and involve lots of social contact.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @06:26AM (#22463491)
When I was younger, I spent quite a lot of "active screen time" with IRC. Back then, it felt like I am connected to other people. In retrospect, it would have been far better for me if I used that time to socialize with real people IRL. If I could go back in time, I would force myself to go out and meet real people, instead of simulated friendships in a chatroom...
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by vidarh on Monday March 02, 2020 @09:00AM (#22464465)
Having also spent lots of time on IRC, most IRC channels are very different from voice chats with a circle of close friends. Even an IRC channel with close friends is very different,because it's a much more async communication with bursts of more live interaction Vs. the continued direct interaction of a voice chat during shared gaming.

Personally what he's doing would be hopelessly exhausting to me - I'm quite introvert and the level of social interaction he's engaging in is way above my tolerance level in terms of intensity.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by icebraining on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:46AM (#22464340)
Yeah, but your current judgment of what would have been better is tainted by the fact that you spent a lot of time on IRC, so can you really trust it?
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @09:03AM (#22464483)
Oh yeah, I can trust my assesment that real life contacts (lets call it a network) would have been more useful in the long run. I "wasted" about 10 years of my life spending time in front of a computer, as a sort of escape from the fact that I am an outsider by trade. I would have benefited a lot more if I tried to break that habit much much earlier.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by VLM on Monday March 02, 2020 @09:09AM (#22464547)
For TV, a large number of people are paid enormous amounts of money and put huge efforts into the best result a bland corporate team can produce to increase ad sales by encouraging consumerism. "Love Island" does NOT exist to teach people about the human condition, its only goal is to increase hair spray sales, any other positive effect is simply a happy accident. Even "non profit" TV like PBS mostly exist to entertain the egos and virtue signalling of a small number of major monetary donors.

On the other hand, books are usually written by one person so they have a much stronger and more focused voice, and that strong voice usually has an interesting axe to grind. Or rephrased, if its not interesting or is overly bland, no one reads the book. Admittedly being the most successful at appealing to the groupthink of a sub-population willing to pay for a book is not a Utopian civilization level result, but it is still better than peddling consumerism, and most authors seem to want to get their story out more than they want wealth. Book authors much like pro athletes are a power law distribution where most starve but a microscopic minority get very famous and very rich, so if money were a primary goal they would have gone into finance or software development instead of writing books.

One exists to addict you into consuming ever more bland megacorporate products, the other exists to sell the best ideas, either inherently best, or at least best at meeting existing groupthink demands.

The voice of the product is like the difference between the billionth corporate marketed mcdonalds burger vs a (celebrity?) chef multi course meal.

An excellent analogy would be watching TV would be like following the Walmart twitter account, whereas reading a book would be like reading Paul Graham's blog posts.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by RichardCA on Monday March 02, 2020 @01:07PM (#22466987)
> TV like PBS mostly exist to entertain the egos and virtue signalling of a small number of major monetary donors.

There was a time in the past when you could find true educational content.

Imagine randomly channel surfing and running into this.

https://youtu.be/feBT0Anpg4A

But I agree with your point. You can watch PBS mindlessly. I used to geek out on the obscure, ephemeral nature of all the educational films they used to show. It was a guilty pleasure.

Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by _lacroix on Monday March 02, 2020 @01:38PM (#22467312)
At this point I consider both reading and TV, and especially movies because they don't encourage bingeing, more worthwhile than internet use of any kind - mainly because they require sustained concentration and don't encourage the tab-jumping, notification-checking, infinite-scrolling content addiction that I feel myself falling into when I'm on the internet. There's something to be said for sustained focus on one piece of content, even if that content is Love Island.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by AQuantized on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:25AM (#22462656)
If you have no problems with your current levels of creativity, focus, etc. is doing those things ("reading books, travel, learning a language or art") still superior to TV?
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:49AM (#22462745)
I wouldn't say superior. That would be snobby and ignorant, but I think it depends on "does it make you happy"? If you have to stop and think then maybe it doesn't. If not then great! Why change something that fulfills you. Doesn't matter what other say, or does it?
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Monday March 02, 2020 @04:33AM (#22462954)
Well, first of all, most TV programs I know are catering to an audience that is clearly not fitting my expectations of quality information or even entertainment. The mother from "requiem for a dream" comes to mind when I think about average TV entertainment. What adds to that, is that I really can't stand the style of action movies produced since about 2010. They are heavily overloaded and lack a story that is worth following. Maybe I am getting old, but I constantly feel like being wound up by TV programs these days.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by officialchicken on Monday March 02, 2020 @04:40AM (#22462982)
The viewer IS the product. Both are mediums that serve essentially no real purpose other than to support advertisers.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by dkns on Monday March 02, 2020 @03:34AM (#22462690)
There is a great plugin for browsers called 'news feed eradicator'. It's great because it turns facebook into messenger with notification center when somebody mentions you or there is event coming up.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by ctrl4 on Monday March 02, 2020 @10:22AM (#22465098)
Just a little note on using Facebook for the calendar. That was also an excuse for me to not deleting Facebook, but I imported the calendar to Google. It's been a year and I don't miss any of it.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mlang23 on Tuesday March 03, 2020 @02:25AM (#22472532)
The only reason why I have a Google account is that Google bought YouTube. Establishing a Google calendar to get rid of Facebook doesn't seem like a win for me... Besides, how does that work? Much of the Facebook Calendar feature works for me by friends inviting me to events. So in a sense, I will still need to maintain an FB account.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by mymythisisthis on Monday March 02, 2020 @07:27AM (#22463787)
I find that I mostly watch Youtube edu-tainment channels like EEVblog.
Re:Economists study what happens when people stop using Face... by VLM on Monday March 02, 2020 @08:28AM (#22464178)
"The Signal Path" and "element 14 presents"

The big corporate channels like "Analog Devices Inc" have too many premade for facebook 90 second snaps, and not enough relax in the living room recliner long format content.

The more niche the content the better the odds of "big corporate" producing quality content. "Analog Devices Inc" is mostly 90 second commercials, but "Arm Mbed" and its office hours series, despite also being "big corporate", has lots of enjoyable long format content, assuming you're into embedded FOSS RTOS for ARM or STM32.