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Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by wging on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:41AM (#22434846)
Am I reading this right? They're going to launch a browser update that removes support for most extensions and claim it's an upgrade?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by coldpie on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:10PM (#22435220)
God Damnit I Hoped They Wouldn't Do This. I love you Firefox but you make it so hard. I've come to depend on NoScript on mobile (the mobile web is a _nightmare_ with JS enabled by default) and now they're going to break it on me. The worst part is the part of this article about how their browser is not ready for extensions is labeled "Extension-ready". No it fucking isn't.

Fuck this is so frustrating.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by twic on Thursday February 27, 2020 @06:08PM (#22438962)
> The worst part is the part of this article about how their browser is not ready for extensions is labeled "Extension-ready". No it fucking isn't.

A classic example of the baffling transparent corporate bare-faced lie. Nobody is going to believe it's ready, so why on earth say that?

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by yjftsjthsd-h on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:58PM (#22435790)
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by ficklepickle on Thursday February 27, 2020 @10:59PM (#22440416)
> updated 1 year ago
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by kd913 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:30PM (#22435487)
It's not like there isn't really a solution to this. You don't really need NoScript if you can learn how to use ublock origin in advanced mode.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by coldpie on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:39PM (#22435580)
I've never tried the uBO script blocker, but NoScript's UI is really nice for performing common tasks related to blocking JS. Stuff like allowing temporary permissions per domain, or allowing all on the current tab. Does uBO have similar features?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by kd913 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:17PM (#22436019)
Yes, in fact ublock origin has a very advanced global/local case where you can block resources globally or block resources locally and temporarily if you really want.

It's generally better to use ublock origin on it's own than to use ublock origin with umatrix or ublock with noscript. Mainly because ublock origin comes wiht neutralising anti-adblock scripts that would get blocked if you combine it with a separate script blocker.

https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/706xrr/umatrix_vs_...

Here is a good tutorial on how to use ublock origin in advanced mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lisQQmWQkY

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by enitihas on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:48PM (#22435665)
You can try the brave browser on Android. Disabling and enabling js temporarily is easy. Even better, enabling js on a website in private mode does not persist. So you can disable all js by default, enable it on trusted sites via 1 click easy to use UI, and enable anywhere in private mode without worrying about forgetting to disable it later.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by boring_twenties on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:20PM (#22438040)
> enable it on trusted sites via 1 click easy to use UI

Does this just enable all scripts loaded by that site, or does it allow filtering by domain the scripts themselves are loaded from?

E.g. when browsing site.com you want to allow site.com (and often sitestatic.com or something), but still not allow doubleclick.net even though it's loaded by the same page.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by smacktoward on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:15PM (#22437309)
You might not need an addon at all; Firefox on both desktop and Android now includes a pretty capable ad/tracking blocker right out of the box. See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Pri... for details.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by danShumway on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:07PM (#22435892)
Ugh. Now I need to choose between disabling updates for Firefox, which is a pretty big security risk, and giving up UMatrix, which I also consider to be at least somewhat of a security risk.

It's such a questionable decision. I understand that addons take a while to support, I understand for most users it's still an upgrade since they don't use extensions, I understand that at some point you need real users instead of just beta-testers. But they're taking a huge step backwards for user freedom. It's a bad look for Mozilla.

I'm disappointed. I wish they'd develop the apps in parallel until they had actual feature parity. Even if the old version of Firefox got pushed to a separate app; I'd be fine uninstalling Firefox and reinstalling 'Firefox Classic' from Mozilla. I feel like they don't really understand what the community response to this is going to be.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by kozziollek on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:00PM (#22437176)
I never used uMatrix, but as far as I am aware uBlock Origin has the same functionality if you check "I am an advanced user" in settings.

See: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode:-medium...

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by cobby on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:40PM (#22438250)
No. uMatrux offers way more granular control.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by 0-_-0 on Friday February 28, 2020 @04:39AM (#22441636)
I don't know about that, but it breaks some of uBlock's functionality:

https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/706xrr/umatrix_vs_...

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by 4bpp on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:55PM (#22437750)
How big a security risk is it, really? Firefox Mobile apparently has a 0.66% usage share, which is lower than desktop Linux, and desktop Linux anecdotally is pretty much a non-target for malware authors. I, for my part, blocked my FF Mobile autoupdates upon reading this and am not going to lose a lot of sleep over the possibility that some malicious website would choose to target me over the Chrome/Safari users.

(I would also suspect, without concrete evidence, that an average default mobile browser user has more valuable data on their phone - Firefox seems like the browser of choice for the same sort of refuseniks who would still do most of their online banking and what-not on PC only rather than installing their bank's app)

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Wowfunhappy on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:24PM (#22439461)
I agree, particularly if the OS itself is up to date, but it's kind of irrelevant—if GP wants the web to keep working, they'll have to upgrade relatively soon.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Macha on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:57PM (#22436508)
Yeah, I'm not a hardcore extension user on mobile, and even then losing HTTPS Everywhere is going to suck (HSTS isn't everywhere still).
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by untog on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:47AM (#22434924)
Yes. Because for the majority of users, who do not use extensions, it is an upgrade. And it comes with built-in tracking prevention and still supports ad blocking, surely the two the big reasons most people use extensions in the first place.

And they're going to restore extension functionality, so the power users who depend on extensions can keep the current version and wait if they wish.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by cesarb on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:23PM (#22436081)
> can keep the current version and wait if they wish.

Unfortunately, web browsers are one of the few applications where "keep the current version" is not a viable option. Web browsers are very exposed to every web site they visit (including code injected by ad networks), and once a new version is released, many serious vulnerabilities on the previous version are revealed (for instance, https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/known-vulnerabilities... is the list for Firefox). Keeping an old version can be a serious security risk.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by zeveb on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:55AM (#22435022)
> And they're going to restore extension functionality

I put the odds of that somewhere around the same as the odds that GNOME Screensaver will ever support any of the xscreensaver demos it claimed it would … which is to say, I'm not holding my breath.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by untog on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:01PM (#22435110)
Why?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by blackearl on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:19PM (#22435347)
Eventually you'll suffocate
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Reelin on Thursday February 27, 2020 @05:33PM (#22438689)
How long did it take them to finish implementing all the equivalent WebExtension APIs after they dropped XUL?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by paulie_a on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:56PM (#22435758)
I'd be more concerned about gnome leaking data when unlocking the screensaver.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by dralley on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:26PM (#22436818)
>They're going to launch a browser update that removes support for most extensions

It's not like they're "removing" it, they rewrote half the browser and not all of the APIs are hooked back up yet. They're going to be added back eventually.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by shock on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:19PM (#22438022)
> It's not like they're "removing" it, they rewrote half the browser and not all of the APIs are hooked back up yet

For most users this is a distinction without a difference.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by petecox on Thursday February 27, 2020 @09:37PM (#22440053)
What part of "it ain't finished yet" would most users not understand?

It's a Preview release for a reason. Mozilla aren't exactly pulling a KDE 4 here.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by iggldiggl on Friday February 28, 2020 @09:18AM (#22442898)
It was a preview release, but they've already started rolling it out to the regular Nightly channel and according to this very blog post we're discussing it's supposed to have a "public release later this spring".

Given that any changes have to work their way through the Beta channel, too, there's not much time left for landing changes in Nightly that will still make it into the first Release version... so the first official Release version that will be pushed out to everybody will indeed be in an unfinished state.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Paul-ish on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:11PM (#22439377)
The distinction to me is they removed it but didn't also deprecate it.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by fwn on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:56PM (#22437133)
It's not like they're removing it. They'll just push an update and your extensions will be gone.

A lot of corporate communication wizards might be required to dress this up as something else than direct removal.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by kelnos on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:38PM (#22435573)
Yes, this is such a foolish move. I have six extensions on my Firefox Android install, and the fact that five of them will not work for who knows how long after initial release makes me want to switch to another browser. I just might. We'll see.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Karunamon on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:44PM (#22436997)
This is hardly the first time that Mozilla has done this to its users (re: what happened to Firefox on the desktop).

Breaking people's experiences and worfklows in an extreme way is demonstrably not high on their list of concerns.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Jonnax on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:19PM (#22435343)
Well it's a rewrite that'd much faster than chrome now.

Can't things be a work in progress?

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Macha on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:28PM (#22435460)
Of course they can.

The issue is when you push a work in progress as a replacement for a finished solution

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by kelnos on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:41PM (#22435596)
A work in progress that removes significant features that the existing release has is... not a great idea. I'm not sure what percentage of Firefox Android users have more extensions installed than uBlock Origin, but this is a recipe for losing users. And not just any users, but the more-technical power users that tend to be best at evangelizing products to their less-technical friends and family.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by anoncake on Thursday February 27, 2020 @06:12PM (#22438986)
That's great for all the people that want a fast browser that doesn't need to support extensions but accidentally installed Firefox instead.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by yoavm on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:11PM (#22435228)
Actually I think you're right, and in fact they've already done this for those of us who used Firefox Nightly on Android. I had both Nightly and Preview on my phone, and kept using Nightly precisely because it supported all my extensions (Cookie AutoDelete, Bypass Paywall etc). One morning I woke up to see that Nightly was "upgraded" to Preview, and my extensions (except uBlock) were disabled. From what I understood, it seems like the same is going to happen with the stable branch - first it'll be "upgraded" to Preview and only later Preview will get all extensions support.

Another bitter thing about this is that as much as the new Preview UI is slicker, it's actually browsing noticeably slower on my Google Pixel.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by sterwill on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:32PM (#22435506)
I've been using the nightly builds of Firefox Preview for a couple of weeks, and it supports the extension I need the most (uBlock Origin). The new preview is so much faster than the old Firefox for Android I probably won't need to buy a new phone for another year or two. I like the UI changes, too.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by ebg13 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:35PM (#22435539)
Me too, but does yours crash all the time like mine does or is that something with my phone?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by jobstijl on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:00PM (#22436552)
For me it did a few updates ago, now it's pretty much stable. I really do like this release and i can live with not all extentions being enabled on the nightly, but for releasing this to stable users i would think they should first fix the extentions.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by sciurus on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:06PM (#22437877)
For the last few days for me, Firefox Preview Nightly crashes almost immediately but Firefox Preview is still stable. My understanding is that Preview picks up changes from Preview Nightly every two weeks.

(Disclaimer: I work for Mozilla but not on our Android browser)

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by dblohm7 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @10:07PM (#22440175)
I hope you’re reporting these...
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by sciurus on Friday February 28, 2020 @12:44PM (#22444596)
Yes, I follow Android's prompt to report the crashes.

I don't see them listed in about:crashes though, so I'm unsure how to follow up about them.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by soapdog on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:02PM (#22437836)
It is kinda of a complete rewrite as far as I know. This is using GeckoView, lots of things changed and moved places. And yes, I don't think this should be pushed to stable before extension support is in place but apparently the metrics tell a different story.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by anoncake on Thursday February 27, 2020 @06:01PM (#22438912)
Then maybe it's time to stop listening to metrics and start using our brains again.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by photon-torpedo on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:27PM (#22435444)
On top of the missing extensions, Firefox Preview (nightly) also crashes a lot. Been giving it a spin in the past two weeks but I don't feel it's ready to replace current Firefox.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Semaphor on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:41PM (#22435603)
I’ve had more problems with the old FF android than Preview Nightly.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Drdrdrq on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:15PM (#22437984)
What kind? It's rock solid for me here.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by Semaphor on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:23PM (#22440498)
It’s sometimes not loading pages without me force-closing it.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by chrysoprace on Thursday February 27, 2020 @05:26PM (#22438625)
I'd say that's to be expected of a Nightly release. Have you considered the stable Firefox Preview? I've had some crashes, but not many.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by jpangs88 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:38PM (#22435569)
It's true that most the extension support is going away for now.

From there GitHub project it doesn't sound like the only thing that won't meet feature parity in the new version.

That being said I am using nightly preview and am really enjoying it and would recommend it.

And if you still want all those extensions you could always fork the current version like waterfox.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by MadWombat on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:17PM (#22435311)
They did it on desktop already, what did you expect?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by yjftsjthsd-h on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:52PM (#22435714)
It was unpopular on desktop, but they had an argument as to why they couldn't keep the old extension model without crippling the browser. Firefox mobile already used the new extension type, and if there's some technical limitation that justifies killing existing extensions then I've not heard about it.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by kwierso on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:52PM (#22437713)
They're not killing it. Preview/Fenix is essentially a complete re-write of the mobile browser, and they just haven't added all of the extension hooks back into the new version yet.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by sfink on Friday February 28, 2020 @09:00PM (#22448191)
(I work for Mozilla, but not specifically on mobile.)

The reason I've heard is that the new GeckoView architecture requires piping each and every WebExtension API through a Java layer (that naturally doesn't exist on desktop). So it's some amount of manual work per API entry. The definition of the MVP only included critical extensions like reader mode and uBlock. And there's still a fair bit of other work remaining for the MVP, so nobody can spare time for noncritical tasks.

Whether that's the right definition of the MVP, and how many resources we'll be able to spend on it post-MVP (especially post-layoffs)... your guess is as good as mine, I'm going by the same public info you have.

Extensions are a pretty important distinguishing factor of mobile firefox, though.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by shultays on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:28PM (#22436153)
Again?
[dead]
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by jamesgeck0 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:07PM (#22436618)
It's a rewrite of a huge complicated application. Why does there need to be a conspiracy?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by hoistbypetard on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:05PM (#22436601)
> they know what users ask for (simply read this discussion)

This discussion only shows what people who like to spend time online talking about implementation details of HTTP user agents ask for.

It does not tell us what most users want.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by roca on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:01PM (#22437179)
What makes you think Mozilla has ample resources? They just laid off some people, which strongly suggests they don't.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by recursive on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:46AM (#22434921)
I didn't see anything about removing any extension support. The word "upgrade" also isn't anywhere on the page that I can see. So my guess is no, you're not reading it right.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by mqus on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:57AM (#22435050)
See point 3, this is a complete redesign so they don't have support for any other extensions yet, compared to the existing Firefox on android. But what irks me is that they will only support "recommended extensions" in the near future with no indication on how to install "unsupported" extensions or how to get "recommended".

Mozillas own FAQ on the subject, with many more questions in the comments there: https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/02/11/faq-for-extension...

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by twelvechairs on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:32PM (#22435508)
But this is only for preview and nightly preview versions?

If you don't want things to break occasiinally just use normal Firefox not a pre-release

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by coldpie on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:35PM (#22435537)
This article is about the final release to all Firefox users. It is not about the preview and nightly versions. They are going to break all extensions for all users (except for uBO).
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by twelvechairs on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:47PM (#22435655)
It IS about nightly and preview. Also the first comment on the page is on this issue (normal Firefox users) and answer is clear about their transition

> At that time, other add-ons will be supported (although there’s a chance that some of the ones you currently have installed will not be supported.)

I don't know what else you can expect? That add ons will never be deprecated?

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by coldpie on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:35PM (#22436241)
From the article being discussed here <https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/firefox-android-new-feature... >: "The biggest ever update to Firefox browser for Android is on its way. Later this spring, everyone using the Firefox browser on their Android phones and tablets will get the update. ... This update will initially include support for one of the most popular extensions on Android, uBlock Origin. Additional extensions will be supported in subsequent releases so you can customize and expand your mobile browsing experience even more."

>I don't know what else you can expect? That add ons will never be deprecated?

I thought we went through the whole round of destroying support for non-WebExtensions so that we wouldn't have to do this ever again.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by wging on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:05PM (#22435148)
"3. Extension-ready

This update will initially include support for one of the most popular extensions..."

Having support for exactly one means you don't support the others. They also say "Additional extensions will be supported in subsequent releases", which implies they aren't supported initially. Also supported by someone's link to https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/02/11/faq-for-extension..., thanks for that.

It's phrased in a way that avoids saying outright what they are actually doing (dropping support), though.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by westmeal on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:48AM (#22434934)
Well I've heard that they are moving to a new extension api for the mobile release and it seems like ublock origin is the only thing thats supported for now per this webpage. I use that and umatrix so I'd like to know if uMatrix is going to be supported for mobile in the future... Does the developer for umatrix browse HN?
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by kwierso on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:55PM (#22437749)
I don't know that uMatrix will be supported any time soon, but you can turn uBlock Origin into Advanced mode and get much of the same functionality that way.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by enitihas on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:51PM (#22435691)
To be fair, current firefox is very slow and resource hungry, and works well only on top of the line phones. For example, I have 2 android phones, 1 with 4GB and 1 with 8 GB of RAM. In the 8 GB one, I can use firefox with ublock origin, but it is a terrible experience on the 4GB phone (which has a slower processor too). The new firefox is much faster and runs snappily on both phones.
Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by stiray on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:42PM (#22436320)
This is nonsense, I am running it on samsung galaxy s5 and s7 and both are running without issues. But with a small twist, both are free from google with microg lineage installed and xprivacy lua and netguard blocking all unneeded communication. Maybe you should think about removing all google apps to remove bloatware from your phone to save the resources for somethinv usefull instead od wasting your batter life (30% longer battery life) and cpu to feed google?

Anyway, I dont use firefox due to speed but as I dont want any of google products on my phone, regardless of how fast they are. It is not about speed. It is about having some dignity within survailance capitalism. And I am filtering everything trough mitm proxy so I dont need ublock. For the fingerprinting part... I wont update untill they fix this mess.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by boring_twenties on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:23PM (#22438067)
I'm using it on a Moto G6 which is last I checked literally the cheapest phone you can buy brand new in the US, and Firefox works fine on it.

Of course I usually have JavaScript disabled.

Re:Things about the new Firefox browser for Android by yjftsjthsd-h on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:24PM (#22438083)
That doesn't match my experience at all. My phone has 4GB of RAM, my firefox has over tabs up (yes I'm a monster but it makes my point a lot stronger here), and other than taking a bit to open from a cold start it's perfectly fine performance-wise.