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Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by perfunctory on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @03:55AM (#22421487)
> As far as bending the warming curve towards 1.5° C is concerned, I think policy and regulatory reform is currently a larger source of leverage than technology.

Refreshing to hear this from someone working in climate tech.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by lorenzhs on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:23AM (#22421591)
Absolutely. And before anyone claims that any such action would inevitably favour the well-off at the expense of the poor, let me point out that schemes like carbon fee and dividend exist that implement a carbon tax in a non-regressive way by returning the collected tax revenue to the population in form of a dividend paid equally to everyone. That way, people with carbon-intensive lifestyles (eg, lots of air travel), who tend to be well-off, pay more, and people who can't afford overseas vacations every year will more likely than not pay less carbon tax than the dividend they receive. This incentivises low individual carbon emissions without disproportionately affecting less well-off people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fee_and_dividend
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by zdragnar on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:12AM (#22424261)
If you think that pricing carbon externalities into all goods now and offering a dividend later (yearly? Quarterly? Monthly?) will not be regressive, ask anyone living paycheck to paycheck how they feel about it.

It might balance out in the big scheme of things, but it isn't going to be doing any favors to people who are already precariously balanced and lack the savings to make personal adjustments. You can be sure there will be mass protests if the price of gas, food, and electricity double (esp food in northern climates where transportation and refrigeration add a lot to produce and frozen goods as well as meats).

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by zamfi on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @12:43PM (#22425276)
> pricing carbon externalities into all goods now and offering a dividend later

Nothing prevents the dividend from being offered upfront. It would be trivial for most governments to finance this.

Ask someone living paycheck to paycheck if they'd take $500 now in exchange for higher (but less than the $500 they get) costs on certain items. Most people living paycheck-to-paycheck are not the biggest consumers.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by zdragnar on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:27PM (#22427525)
Certain items? everything is influenced by petroleum, whether transportation, manufacturing or fertilization. Our clothes are made from it. Machines are powered and lubricated by it. Food is cooled and packaged with it. I wouldn't be too hopeful that the cost of anything wouldn't be affected, unless those goods have externality costs excluded, in which case you aren't really pricing in externalities, you're just running another UBI scheme.
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by zamfi on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:19PM (#22428573)
Prices fluctuate all the time. How many tons of CO2 are consumed by the machine that spins yarn? Sure there’s an added cost, but of pennies — this strikes me as a weak counter argument.

At a nominal price of $20/ton, a few things will go way up in price, but almost everything else will see at best a blip, with an added incentive to the producers to reduce the carbon content because that matters at industrial scale (company saves $3m over 30m units by switching to a non-petroleum glue whatever) not to an individual consumer (who would see a cost increase of 10¢).

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by nothrabannosir on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @12:50PM (#22425353)
Canada has a carbon tax and an end of year rebate. They have been introducing it step by step, it’s per province so numbers are hard to summarise. The Wikipedia page has plenty of info for you to rest assured: it works. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pricing_in_Canada

They are a northern climate. There are no mass protests. Carbon emissions are going down.

Instead of asking people how they feel about a theoretical scenario, you can look at reality.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by technicalbard on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:48PM (#22426571)
It is still debatable whether carbon emissions are falling. Most of the country hasn't got enough data under a carbon tax, and oil and gas pricing has swung more significantly over the last 10 years than the carbon tax impact, and that didn't impact consumption very much.
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by nradov on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @12:39PM (#22425226)
For people living paycheck to paycheck that can be handled through adjustments to tax withholding. So less money would be withheld from each paycheck. We already handle numerous other taxes and tax credits / deductions the same way.

Rapid price inflation for staple goods will likely cause civil unrest either way. The only way to make a carbon tax politically feasible will be to slowly phase it in over many years so that people have time to adjust.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by WhompingWindows on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:47AM (#22424674)
There won't be mass protests, there will be vocal minority protests like we saw in France. For better or worse, vocal minorities can do a lot of damage to the policies we need.
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by ip26 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:59AM (#22424822)
Fwiw climate change itself is heavily regressive. Pick your poison.
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by beefield on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:26AM (#22421605)
You have to be a bit careful here, though. If you think that "policy and regulatory reform" means international agreements limiting greenhouse gases are the way to go, unfortunately I am afraid you are in for a really long wait. On the other hand, policies that push for new technologies, then kind of yes, but then it is more difficult to distinguish which one, the policies or technologies are the more important source of leverage (personally I do no think that it is even a feasible comparison).

For example, "everyone" is laughing at Germany's super Energiewende that it is a expensive failure that has not managed to reduce Germany's dependence for coal at all. But then, if you have a look when Germany has built solar, it's share of the global new capacity at that time and compare that tho the learning curve and price development of solar, it is a bit difficult to conclude anything but Germany's policies have pretty much singlehandedly brought solar from laughably expensive novelty to something that actually can be competitive in certain markets. Then China continued from there, and now we are extremely close (if not already over) a tipping point where solar just keeps getting cheaper subsidized or not.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by hutzlibu on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @08:14AM (#22422585)
Germanys problem is, that nuclear is supposed to be banned long before coal.

Now while I agree, that in the long term all energy should be from renewable sources, in the short term it is much more important to get those coal plants off the grid. Instead there were new ones being opened.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by ergothus on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:27AM (#22424429)
In the late 80s early 90s I was against nuclear power, because I saw no reason people/govt would want to off of it until the collected problems were disastrous.

In the late aughts I changed my tune because coal is just too disastrous and indeed, people/govts werent motivated enough.

So while I understand the simple practicality of going nuke to get off coal, I also expect that most of the potential downsides of nuclear will become reality before people will be motivated enough to do anything about it.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by bernardlunn on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:58AM (#22421730)
Keep it simple: unless Trump is kicked out of power any meaningful change is unlikely
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by mattbk1 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @01:20PM (#22425654)
It's fuzzier than that. For example, there is a lot of momentum behind carbon capture and storage research and implementation that was built up under previous presidents (yes, even pre-Obama), and it would take a great deal of work for congress to re-route funding that the Department of Energy has already allocated. Even 45Q tax credits for capturing and storing CO2 started working through the federal government before the current administration, with the partial goal of determining what a carbon price would actually be.

CCS technology may be currently used to say "look, clean coal!", but it's still useful and important for a low-carbon future.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by foolinaround on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:11AM (#22424254)
these kind of comments should remain relegated to reddit
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by lazyjones on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:06AM (#22422011)
Under Trump, the US implemented record / word-leading carbon reductions.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/feb/25/donald-trum...

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by jayd16 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:21AM (#22423686)
Isn't this from the continued steady decline of coal power in the US and not any new policy? The current administration hasn't made good on their policy to boost coal power (imo that failure being a good thing).

What recent policies have been passed that you think should be lauded?

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by lazyjones on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @12:05PM (#22424890)
The point is that "Trump has to go for anything to happen" contradicts facts. If anything, the virtue signalling by other politicians has been less effective than whatever happened under Trump.
Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by jayd16 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @12:45PM (#22425299)
>The point is that "Trump has to go for anything to happen" contradicts facts.

Unless we can point to a policy change then "Trump has to go for anything to happen" seems reasonable, doesn't it? If the gains are from coal's decline, it seems reasonable to be worried that won't be enough.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by wffurr on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:31AM (#22422107)
The US government implemented no such thing.

It happened under Trump's tenure due to the economics of coal power and wind, despite his campaign promises to prop up coal and the phase out of wind power subsidies.

The reduction isn't even close to the scale of the cuts required to make meaningful progress on climate.

As someone earlier in the thread said, look how much progress has been made under a hostile policy regime. Imagine if there was actually a carbon tax and oil subsidies were transferred to clean tech.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by corebit on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @07:56AM (#22422458)
> It happened under Trump's tenure due to the economics

Which let's be real is his only platform, so I'm willing to grant it

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by Brakenshire on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @08:44AM (#22422779)
The US is the largest developed economy and has some of the high per person emissions in the world. It’s hardly going to be possible for another country to have a larger fall if it’s five times smaller with half the per person emissions.

The other point is this relies on fracking, and the carbon intensity of fracking depends on the level of escaped Methane. It can actually be worse than coal. And Trump has just reversed a lot of the regulation which prevented venting of Methane from fracking sites.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by aaron695 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:42AM (#22421672)
> Refreshing to hear this from someone working in climate tech.

Someone in climate tech supporting forcing their tech onto consumers is refreshing? Seems absolutely normal.

People in climate tech are more about fundamentalist morality than improving the world through actual advances.

Re:Things I Learned from Five Years in Climate Tech by incangold on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:00AM (#22421989)
Straw man arguments do not belong on hacker news