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Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by virtuous_signal on Friday February 07, 2020 @07:57PM (#22272864)
One good thing to come out of certain rating systems, like Uber and Airbnb, is that the users get rated too. If someone is a terrible customer, then they can probably make things a lot worse for the driver or host than vice versa, and without these scores, drivers might not be able to warn other drivers about them. I would hope that with other modern customer service jobs, that reverse-ratings are always employed. It is a measurable way to improve the jobs of customer service workers.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by hombre_fatal on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:41PM (#22273120)
Actually, what I've found on Airbnb is that everyone just rates everyone high to either avoid rating retaliation or to avoiding seeming like a dick / hard customer. I suspect it's the latter -- there really is no upside to being an honest critic.

You'll rent a place that ends up being on the noisy highway and the worst rating you'll find is "great for early risers!"

The rating system does not work. Airbnb doesn't care about rating inflation because it just makes everything look like 5-star experience.

Uber is frustrating for other reasons. I've never made an Uber driver wait for me, I'll greet the driver, and I can't imagine how someone can be a better customer. I have a 4.1 rating and can't get VIP because of my rating. My girlfriend doesn't even believe in getting up to leave the house until the app tells her the Uber is there. She constantly calls uber for large loud drunk groups, redirects her rides, and yammers on her phone the whole ride. She has a 4.8+.

Aside, my girlfriend also rates all Uber drivers 3/5 because that's an average rating. They get a 4/5 if they go above and beyond. I actually though 5-star systems had merits until I met her. Now I'm firmly against them.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by pushswap on Saturday February 08, 2020 @01:33AM (#22274331)
Part of the problem of rating inflation comes with the removal of problematic listings.

My girlfriend & I discovered large patches of mushrooms growing out of the master bedroom carpet in an otherwise very unhealthy AirBnB. I wanted to write feedback on the house, but I couldn't warn others since AirBnB's policy in such cases is to remove the listing. I spotted the listing not long after with a clean slate. I'm sure they cleaned the place, but I'm also sure they didn't tear out the floors and fix the root problem. Too bad no one will know since the ratings won't be a source of info in such cases.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by arcturus17 on Saturday February 08, 2020 @04:25AM (#22274897)
The way to solve this would be to have an overlay everywhere, such as the one that tha browser extensions afford where you can see a layer of reviews that are truly independent.

Maybe AR will open a new door there... I know it would be an extremely hard problem to solve - it might involve cutting-edge techniques in AR, AI, computer vision and so on - but I think there might be a billion dollar market there.

The pain certainly exists as reviews could be useful, but they're trash almost everywhere (Uber, AirBnB, Google, Amazon, Deliveroo, etc.) due to platform-owner incentives.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by RangerScience on Saturday February 08, 2020 @05:18AM (#22275048)
Interesting. I wouldn't try to do this with "true" AR (magic leap / hololens) - not enough benefit - but just a location aware layer would do it.

Seems like you'd want to pair it with a browser extension (want to avoid making that booking in the first place), and the back-end engineering is very similar to what (IMO/AFAIK) you'd need to support similar reality overlays in "true" AR.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by arcturus17 on Saturday February 08, 2020 @06:15AM (#22275197)
I mention AR because browser extensions would work well on the web, but you'd only be able to do the same on mobile with a system that cooperates, and there's a slim chance that Apple and Google - esp. the latter - would allow something of the sort to materialize. Plus of course with AR you could take it to the streets!

As for the business model of this independent platform, one could still make a ton of money out of it as long as its revenue-generating incentives were disaligned from the review scores, and I really think that's not such a hard problem to solve.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by RangerScience on Saturday February 08, 2020 @03:35PM (#22278164)
Ohhh. Phone as browser in physical space, AR as extendible medium.... I like.

For the AR-ish part... Oh, widgets! Right? Like clock, or weather, or the news thing. Constantly (modulo performance) update what you're showing on the widget based on location. Or dynamic notifications; "this is how many reviewed locations we know of at this location".

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by gruez on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:37PM (#22273908)
>on Airbnb is that everyone just rates everyone high to either avoid rating retaliation

I thought this is a non-issue because airbnb withholds reviews until both parties have written a review?

>or to avoiding seeming like a dick / hard customer. I suspect it's the latter -- there really is no upside to being an honest critic.

I personally don't understand this. If a place is legitimately bad, it's not being a "dick / hard customer", it's telling the truth. The upside is that you added slightly more information to the market.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by goatherders on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:44PM (#22273937)
Ever consider that she gets higher ratings because shes a woman?
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by anovikov on Saturday February 08, 2020 @01:25AM (#22274299)
True, it's also based on ethnicity. I when i lived for a while in a country with a wide anti-Russian sentiment, i saw my Uber rating going down, moving to the one more friendly to Russians, it went up... I would assume than minority people have it hard.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by jacques_chester on Friday February 07, 2020 @09:34PM (#22273410)
I gave up giving anything other than 5 because if I do that, I get hounded for an explanation. I know they think this "proves" their dedication to excellence!!1!, but it mostly proves that the ratings are essentially bullshit.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by jdminhbg on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:05PM (#22273773)
I’m in the same boat. I’m not worried about ratings creep for providers; normalizing based on a user’s other ratings is a solved problem. But being forced to write 300 characters about why you gave a 4 instead of a 5 means I only rate less than 5 to legitimately warn the public.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by nostrebored on Saturday February 08, 2020 @04:17AM (#22274871)
> I've never made an Uber driver wait for me, I'll greet the driver, and I can't imagine how someone can be a better customer.

This is really the bare minimum. I know a ton of drivers who care less about wait time than some other annoying tics their customers might have. I've lived in a region where the median rating seems to be around a 4.4. I've never met someone with a 4.1 uber rating.

I'm going to postulate that you're being VERY rude in a way you don't know. Maybe have someone ride with you and critique your behavior.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by failuser on Friday February 07, 2020 @10:52PM (#22273714)
Do you have an explanation for this? It sound like something straight from science fiction about dangers of automated society.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by dhdjsbsb on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:34PM (#22273903)
Does it need a lot of explaining? Presumably the workers are in it because they need the money. If a customer hits your rating they're threatening your ability to make the money you need, so there's no reason not to ding their rating in retaliation if they ding yours. And the other workers don't have a reason to care, you're making their clients more nervous to hand out imperfect scores too.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by scarejunba on Saturday February 08, 2020 @03:02AM (#22274623)
It's a regional thing. I have thousands of rides and a 4.86 so I know that's easy. But I know that drivers in India and Turkey just always fire off these 3 star ratings and stuff so when you travel you gotta be careful.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by kevingadd on Saturday February 08, 2020 @06:45AM (#22275272)
I don't feel like reverse-rating systems are actually a good idea without some checks and balances. You have no way to know how a driver decides whether or not to give a passenger a bad rating. We know from history (both pre-and-post-Uber) that sometimes drivers have an agenda in how they treat their passengers, either due to race, gender, or other factors, just like how sometimes a horrible passenger will mistreat a driver.

With driver ratings, I can see my driver's rating and they can see it too. The rating system in Lyft (not sure about Uber) also has buttons you can use to explain why you gave a bad rating or indicate what you liked about a driver, which presumably provides anonymous feedback to the driver on how they could improve their scores.

In comparison, a passenger with bad driver ratings gets no feedback or incentive to improve, and it's hard to know whether they could improve at all. If they have a bad rating from drivers they may never know and will just have a bad experience with the app, potentially forever. If you pick up a fare who already has a rating of 1.5/5, are you more likely to negatively interpret their behavior and give them a low score? Psychology is a factor here.

An anecdote: On my third ever ride with Uber, the driver told me I had a very, very low passenger score. That means one of my first drivers gave me a low rating, probably a 1 or 2. Why? I have no idea. He didn't know either. Maybe the driver was having a bad day or thought I was rude, or the driver had trouble finding my pick-up location. In the end the only outcome was that it took me longer to get a driver to pick me up afterward because drivers saw my low score. (I use Lyft now instead and have no problems)

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by asiachick on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:36PM (#22273100)
honestly IMO that's a horrible anti-feature.

If I get bad service or ripped off I want to be able to tell anyone and everyone "STAY AWAY!" but instead I know that if I do that no one will rent to me. Why would they? They can just make sure to choose only people that never post a bad review.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by Retric on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:43PM (#22273131)
It could be a useful feature as long as the feedback is anonymous. Unfortunately, companies running ranking systems have their own best interests in the forefront which causes issues.
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by leppr on Saturday February 08, 2020 @02:04AM (#22274429)
Exactly, it's an incentive game. Airbnb has an incentive to maintain high rankings across the board, because customers compare ratings across platforms as if they're equivalent. If they see a majority of 3/5 on Airbnb, they're just going to go on Booking.com and book a 4.5/5 hotel instead.

The only way to avoid this I can imagine is relying on cryptographic zero-knowledge proofs to defer ratings to an external network (ideally decentralized, but a neutral third-party ala TripAdvisor could work too). The platform gives the customer and provider a token when the transaction takes place, and they can use it to anonymously sign a review on the external ratings platform.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by aprdm on Friday February 07, 2020 @07:58PM (#22272868)
I think there’s a bit of an imbalance as customers can easily create new accounts
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by rock_hard on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:15PM (#22272969)
Not really...most of these services require to register with a phone number creating a pretty high barrier to create additional accounts for the common folk
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by xnyan on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:48PM (#22273155)
If you wanted to rent an Airbnb and you couldn’t because your phone number was associated with a negatively reviewed account, anyone who had the ability to get a phone number has the ability to get a second. It may be a minor inconvenience but not a particularly costly one.

If I was a renter and wanted to disassociate from bad reviews, I imagine the easiest way to do it would be to transfer overship of the property to a holding company or similar. This is far harder to do and there’s far more cost.

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by gruez on Friday February 07, 2020 @11:38PM (#22273914)
>most of these services require to register with a phone number creating a pretty high barrier to create additional accounts for the common folk

getting a prepaid sim is a "high barrier"?

Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by jaxn on Saturday February 08, 2020 @12:06AM (#22274033)
Absolutely. Do you want to keep that SIM around for the next trip and the next?
Re:Modern workers are at the mercy of ratings by Godel_unicode on Saturday February 08, 2020 @12:35AM (#22274132)
Yes.