Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by verytrivial on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @06:52AM
(#22234548)
The idea of finding "lost" plants immediately reminded me of this story on the stupendously compendious "Spitalfields Life" daily blog by the notionally anonymous "Gentle Author", whom details the past and present of a specific part of East London.
"Last year, I joined a group of intrepid plant hunters descending into the depths of the last remaining bomb site in the City of London. We climbed all the way down into the hole until we reached the level of the platforms of what was formerly part of Aldgate East Station, until a V2 bomb dropped nearby in the Second World War.
Consequently, the plant life that flourished in this rare haven of nature remained untouched in all these years because the proximity of the tube line precluded any redevelopment until now, and so the project was to record this lost world of botanic richness at the eleventh hour. The plant species collected included many that were once commonplace throughout the City and the East End yet which no longer thrive here."
Of course in this case the plants are not "lost" per se, but the population is a snapshot of a lost _ecosystem_, left untouched more or less, telling you something about how London used to look (and smell).
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by dnh44 on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @01:51AM
(#22233069)
The article also mentioned a former staple of the Roman dinner table called lovage; this herb is still commonly used in Romanian cooking where it is known as leuștean. It's quite tasty if you ever get the chance.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by elmo2you on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @09:35AM
(#22235926)
Trivia addition:
Lovage called "lavas" in Dutch, and I remember it growing wild in abundance, where I grew up (North part of The Netherlands).
Colloquially the herb was often called "maggi-plant", because it smells very much like the popular Maggi seasoning product (also called Maggi Aroma), which itself actually does not contain any lovage.
Since Maggi seasoning has been popular/convenient in kitchens throughout Europe (and beyond), for more than 50 years, the decline in use of lovage might be in part attributed the popularity of Maggi seasoning.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by unwind on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @08:42AM
(#22235382)
Huh? Following the Wikipedia link to the Swedish page, it turns out "feldsalat" is called "maché" commercially in Sweden, it's really a standard thing to find in the produce corners. See [1] for instance.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by Agentlien on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @05:51AM
(#22245691)
Yes, you're right. My wording was a bit stronger than intended.
It's certainly available, but not as popular as other types of lettuce such as iceberg, romaine or cosmopolitan. To the point that I didn't know what it was and always looked past it before living in Belgium.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by DonaldFisk on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @06:14AM
(#22234331)
Lovage is a perennial. It's hard to find in England, but I've bought whole plants at garden centres, as well as at a market in Wallonia (where it's called livèche). I haven't seen it sold as a herb in shops. It tastes like very strong celery, but is more fragrant.
It should not be confused with a different herb, called ajwain, whose seeds are sometimes sold as lovage in shops which sell indian spices, where you can also buy hing, which is asafoetida, the silphium substitute.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by grenoire on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @05:23AM
(#22234072)
Also following the liquor's name is the album Music to Make Love to Your Old Lady By, by Mike Patton (Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, etc.) under the pseudonym Lovage. It makes reference to the liquor itself in a tongue-in-cheek fake advertisement intermezzo.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by fit2rule on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @06:17AM
(#22234349)
I've got it growing wild in my garden most seasons, and its an abundant edible out in the Austrian wilderness if you know how to find it before the goats and cows do ..
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by esch89 on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @01:25AM
(#22232948)
I grow medicinal herbs in my garden and really enjoyed this article, which starts off talking about a mysterious, long-lost aphrodisiac plant and ends on a word of warning on over-harvesting. Plants, their chemical compounds, and their effects on the body are so fascinating!
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by JoeAltmaier on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @10:01AM
(#22236237)
Huh. We picked fruit from what the landowner claimed were 'huckleberry plants'. Made jam - pretty good, a little bitter but tasty. Threw the strained seeds into the compost heap.
The next summer had the most lush patch of huckleberry plants there, complete with plentiful fruit.
So either those weren't huckleberries, or somebody has solved the huckleberry reproduction issue.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by cygx on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @10:21AM
(#22236493)
Probably blueberries or bilberries.
Quote from some random search result[1]:
Huckleberries are edible and quite tasty. The small, round berries resemble blueberries. In fact, in some parts of the United States, huckleberries might be called blueberries and blueberries might be called huckleberries. They're not the same fruit, though.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by asveikau on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @01:12AM
(#22232889)
AFAIK only if you ignore a bunch of Latin and Greek phonetics.
The <ph> was an aspirated /p/ before it was an /f/.
The Romans said <v> as a /w/ sound.
Maybe someone can correct me but I don't think an [i] to [a] change or vice-versa is that common in Latin derivates.
If you're saying "silvia sounds like salvia", maybe we should also conclude the Latin word for "forest" also derives from that? But the etymologies are actually totally different in that case, the similarity is just a coincidence.
>The name Salvia ("salviya") derives from the Latin salvere ("to feel well and healthy, health, heal"), the verb related to salus (health, well-being, prosperity or salvation), referring to the herb's healing properties. Pliny the Elder was the first author known to describe a plant called "Salvia" by the Romans, likely describing the type species for the genus Salvia, Salvia officinalis.
Re:The mystery of silphium, a lost Roman herb (2017)
by pvaldes on Tuesday February 04, 2020 @06:19AM
(#22234363)
Totally different plants and different etymology. Salvia is from "Salvare" that means "to save", It was a widely known fix-all remedy in roman empire. Nobody would confuse it.
It was probably just another extinct endemism, maybe a big Apiaceae.
The carrot family is complicated with a mix of edible and very poisonous species like hemlock. I would not advice to play with unknown species of Apiaceae just trying to find this plant.
https://spitalfieldslife.com/2018/05/11/wild-city/ - "A Lost Botanic World In Aldgate"
"Last year, I joined a group of intrepid plant hunters descending into the depths of the last remaining bomb site in the City of London. We climbed all the way down into the hole until we reached the level of the platforms of what was formerly part of Aldgate East Station, until a V2 bomb dropped nearby in the Second World War.
Consequently, the plant life that flourished in this rare haven of nature remained untouched in all these years because the proximity of the tube line precluded any redevelopment until now, and so the project was to record this lost world of botanic richness at the eleventh hour. The plant species collected included many that were once commonplace throughout the City and the East End yet which no longer thrive here."
Of course in this case the plants are not "lost" per se, but the population is a snapshot of a lost _ecosystem_, left untouched more or less, telling you something about how London used to look (and smell).
Colloquially the herb was often called "maggi-plant", because it smells very much like the popular Maggi seasoning product (also called Maggi Aroma), which itself actually does not contain any lovage.
Since Maggi seasoning has been popular/convenient in kitchens throughout Europe (and beyond), for more than 50 years, the decline in use of lovage might be in part attributed the popularity of Maggi seasoning.
However, that's of course pure speculation.
Growing it in my garden as it's not in any of the UK supermarkets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerianella_locusta
[1] https://www.mathem.se/varor/machesallat/sallad-mache-70g-kla...
It's certainly available, but not as popular as other types of lettuce such as iceberg, romaine or cosmopolitan. To the point that I didn't know what it was and always looked past it before living in Belgium.
It should not be confused with a different herb, called ajwain, whose seeds are sometimes sold as lovage in shops which sell indian spices, where you can also buy hing, which is asafoetida, the silphium substitute.
The next summer had the most lush patch of huckleberry plants there, complete with plentiful fruit.
So either those weren't huckleberries, or somebody has solved the huckleberry reproduction issue.
Quote from some random search result[1]:
Huckleberries are edible and quite tasty. The small, round berries resemble blueberries. In fact, in some parts of the United States, huckleberries might be called blueberries and blueberries might be called huckleberries. They're not the same fruit, though.
[1] https://www.wonderopolis.org/wonder/what-is-a-huckleberry
You can see visit silphium fields in Assassin’s Creed: Origins.
Apparently inspired by a book: Lost Feast: Culinary Extinction and the Future of Food
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia
The <ph> was an aspirated /p/ before it was an /f/.
The Romans said <v> as a /w/ sound.
Maybe someone can correct me but I don't think an [i] to [a] change or vice-versa is that common in Latin derivates.
If you're saying "silvia sounds like salvia", maybe we should also conclude the Latin word for "forest" also derives from that? But the etymologies are actually totally different in that case, the similarity is just a coincidence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia
>The name Salvia ("salviya") derives from the Latin salvere ("to feel well and healthy, health, heal"), the verb related to salus (health, well-being, prosperity or salvation), referring to the herb's healing properties. Pliny the Elder was the first author known to describe a plant called "Salvia" by the Romans, likely describing the type species for the genus Salvia, Salvia officinalis.
It was probably just another extinct endemism, maybe a big Apiaceae.
The carrot family is complicated with a mix of edible and very poisonous species like hemlock. I would not advice to play with unknown species of Apiaceae just trying to find this plant.
What was a great thing ruined by popularity? : AskReddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ey5tm0/what_was_...
Which fits with most of the reply's of romanticising the past.
"first genuinely effective birth control"
In the old days meant a poison when taken in a light dose probably would kill the fetus and not you.