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Re:Layoffs hit Quora by geofft on Friday January 24, 2020 @09:55PM (#22144320)
> The content is simply extracted and stolen. How can we have a thriving internet when such monopolistic and profit driven practices stifle innovation and creation on the web?

TripAdvisor, Quora, and Yelp are just as rent-seeking and profit-driven as Google.

If I write a review on TripAdvisor or Yelp or answer a question on Quora, I, the author, certainly don't get compensated for it. If Quora fails and another company takes their place, it's no loss to me - I'm no less (and no more) willing to write for the new company for free. If I write the review on Google itself, I lose nothing. Perhaps something is structurally lost for the internet by allowing Google to be a monopoly, but there aren't any incentives for me to care.

If you want a thriving internet, fix that. Ideally, make it the case that when I write a good answer to a technical question on my blog, it's as likely to be seen as when I write a good answer to a technical question on StackOverflow - the idea of companies relying on SEO content is a structural failing in the first place. Then figure out how to motivate me to keep posting to my blog (which might be letting me, the actual author, monetize my blog somehow, but might just be me writing for the pleasure of writing and knowing other people are seeing it - or perhaps the quantified pleasure of seeing trustworthy upvotes in some way).

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by codingslave on Saturday January 25, 2020 @01:16AM (#22145054)
Sure but atleast Quora did the hard work of building the website, getting the users, etc. They own that. I think we need to increase awareness and outcry about google stealing content from websites. They should be required to pay part of the revenue from page views to the content owners.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by jzb on Friday January 31, 2020 @02:42PM (#22204867)
I'm not sure Quora's problems are entirely on Google. The site has a shit reputation due to the whole "create an account if you want to look at anything." In fact, didn't Quora try really hard to game google results to funnel people to its site? I've no love for Google's steady erosion of the Web, but Quora strikes me as a company that is just sad it hasn't managed to get big enough to do what Google is doing.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by mam2 on Saturday January 25, 2020 @10:25PM (#22150197)
And google did the effort to build the NLP...

There is no moral high ground in this story.

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by bekman on Sunday January 26, 2020 @04:25AM (#22151241)
Making a platform for people to create content and building an algorithm to scrap(steal) that content is a very different thing.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by mam2 on Sunday January 26, 2020 @11:12AM (#22152755)
This a completely useless academic discussion.. some people build stuf, some stuff bring money and other dont.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by JMTQp8lwXL on Friday January 24, 2020 @09:57PM (#22144328)
The paradox is, if these companies fold, Google has to get the data from somewhere.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by geofft on Friday January 24, 2020 @11:24PM (#22144661)
What's the paradox there? Google has its own review system for restaurants / hotels / etc., so they can definitely survive TripAdvisor and Yelp disappearing. They'll just collect the data themselves.

For Quora and StackOverflow, they can (and do) index personal blogs etc., too. Google is a search engine; they don't need a single fixed third party to be the first search result to all questions in a category.

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by drywater on Saturday January 25, 2020 @04:27AM (#22145542)
The problem with Google is that everything is attached to your name. I never write any review on Google knowing that anybody can judge me based on that review alone. Reviews are between me and the target of the review. My coworkers don't need to know what I've bought, where I've been and all my opinions about those things.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by geofft on Saturday January 25, 2020 @08:36AM (#22146170)
People generally use their real name on sites like Quora, Yelp, Amazon, etc. and they seem to work fine. You can also choose to use a fake name pretty easily on these sites - or on Google.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by paulie_a on Monday January 27, 2020 @07:47AM (#22158789)
Let's be honest. Your coworkers are not interested in your posts.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by lenkite on Tuesday January 28, 2020 @03:51AM (#22167631)
Of course they are. Especially if you happen to voice an unpopular political opinion that differs from the herd.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by JMTQp8lwXL on Saturday January 25, 2020 @02:13PM (#22148006)
Just having a review site is missing the big picture. People want authenticity and trusted reviews. Google doesn't know if you really bought the Amazon item, booked the hotel through TripAdvisor, etc. Google can collect data, but is it any good if they do it themselves?
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by geofft on Saturday January 25, 2020 @09:43PM (#22150057)
Do TripAdvisor or Yelp know if I really visited that restaurant or that hotel? Does Quora or StackOverflow know if I really worked on that project or studied that subject? Clearly, there's widespread public internet in reviews without the automated verification.

And if you want it, Google sees most credit card transactions. In 2017, they said, "Google’s third-party partnerships ... capture approximately 70% of credit and debit card transactions in the United States." https://adwords.googleblog.com/2017/05/powering-ads-and-anal... (Later reporting found a deal with MasterCard, at least.) So they could absolutely know if you bought the Amazon item or booked the hotel, if they wanted.

I wholeheartedly agree that there's a centralization concern about letting one company have so much power, but that doesn't change that there doesn't seem to be much advantage in another party being the review aggregator. If we can't figure out how to return control to the actual reviewers, Google is no worse of an aggregator.

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by Mathnerd314 on Friday January 24, 2020 @10:02PM (#22144343)
> If I write the review on Google itself, I lose nothing.

There are distinct advantages to having a single cloud, with a single set of protocols/APIs/etc. The only issue I see is if Google starts filtering/blocking in a significant way, then the blocked communities will build their own infrastructure. But Google wouldn't want that data, since they are filtering it out in the first place, except perhaps to train their filters more accurately.

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by toomuchtodo on Friday January 24, 2020 @10:03PM (#22144345)
Make that corpus licensed with a Creative Commons license where commercial use requires compensation, but non commercial use is freely permitted.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by bawolff on Friday January 24, 2020 @10:15PM (#22144388)
Not sure how that would help. I imagine currently its all rights reserved, and google is claiming that using their information is fair use.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by Mirioron on Saturday January 25, 2020 @02:12AM (#22145195)
How come they're not being sued over this?
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by tomp on Saturday January 25, 2020 @03:46AM (#22145421)
If you sue them they’ll just remove you from the index. It’s a “heads I win, tails you lose” situation for Google.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by randoramax on Saturday January 25, 2020 @03:11AM (#22145346)
Probably because nobody understands the ramifications of what Google is doing deeply enough to build a solid-enough case. Justice is slow, too slow for modern times and laws are inadequate.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by bawolff on Saturday January 25, 2020 @02:56PM (#22148275)
Ianal, but an additional issue, is from my (limited) understanding, copyright applies to presentation not facts or the idea of something. If you take some info and reword it so the original presentation is gone and only the factual idea is the same, i think you are in the clear.

Again, ianal and dont really know what im talking about

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by jjeaff on Saturday January 25, 2020 @03:00PM (#22148307)
They were sued by Rap Genius for a similar practice and I believe Rap Genius won.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by paulie_a on Monday January 27, 2020 @08:02AM (#22158854)
I can't find anything about a lawsuit but they were using shady seo methods and Google deindexed them. Rapgunius stopped what they were doing and apologized for the dishonest behavior.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by jjeaff on Friday February 07, 2020 @02:40PM (#22269962)
Looks like rap Genius hasn't filed suit as of yet. But they published the findings of their sting operation to prove that Google was stealing lyrics from their site. I must have been conflating two separate stories.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by gist on Saturday January 25, 2020 @11:22AM (#22146908)
> If I write a review on TripAdvisor or Yelp or answer a question on Quora, I, the author, certainly don't get compensated for it.

But you do get 'compensated' you get a good feeling from it.

Along those lines there are many things that people do in which they get 'compensated' not by money or that money isn't the primary motivator.

Jeff Bezos does not get up and go to work every day because he wants to amass more money 'be compensated for what he does'. Yes it's a by product but I would argue it's not what drives him. He does it for other reasons and has other motivations.

Another example - A woman who volunteers at a hospital and doesn't get paid a salary does it to keep busy and to feel good not for 'compensation'.

Not saying money isn't important. But nobody comments on HN and gets paid although some people have made money as a result of commenting but my guess is that is not what led them down that road or kept them at it. [1]

[1] I say this from personal experience having made (to this day) a boatload of money making comments in another place (really you have no idea). But 100% never did it for that reason at all.

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by geofft on Saturday January 25, 2020 @09:46PM (#22150071)
I don't disagree with you - but then there's no harm in the Quoras or TripAdvisors of the world failing to make a profit, is there? Those of us who review for the joy of reviewing and of being useful will keep doing it even if other people can't figure out how to rent-seek, and there is no risk to a vibrant internet.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by bertil on Saturday January 25, 2020 @10:19AM (#22146567)
Quora is compensating writers (at least those they deem the best) as Partners.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by manigandham on Saturday January 25, 2020 @03:40PM (#22148498)
How do you know this? The only published program is paying for questions, and they had a trial of "knowledge prizes" years ago as a contest for the best answers but it was shut down. As a "top writer" for 2 years, I've heard nothing about any payments for writers.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by gauravjain13 on Saturday January 25, 2020 @05:18AM (#22145686)
HN feels like such a sanctuary: a high quality space not (yet?) perverted by the pressures of a purely profit motive.

It’d be interesting to study how does HN thrives; more deeply understand the incentives that sustain the HN ecosystem.

Re:Layoffs hit Quora by geofft on Saturday January 25, 2020 @08:41AM (#22146184)
It's quite profit-perverted: the overarching goal is to conflate in the mind of engineers the idea of "hackers" - a group that traditionally is interested in the inherent joy of hacking and is skeptical of business-types - with the goals of venture capitalists and the lives of founders. It's not very explicit, and obviously I nonetheless find value here, but if you've ever seen someone build a technically interesting project and thought "Hey, they should get some seed funding and work on this full-time," then the HN gambit has been successful.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by mmmuhd on Saturday January 25, 2020 @06:30AM (#22145857)
Thinking out loud,'I would gladly pay to be on hackernews ecosystem'.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by TheOtherHobbes on Saturday January 25, 2020 @10:06AM (#22146506)
And so would many organisations who would like to use it to influence hacker opinion.
Re:Layoffs hit Quora by qrbLPHiKpiux on Saturday January 25, 2020 @09:11AM (#22146299)
> If you want a thriving internet, fix that.

If you want a thriving internet, get out of the way. Too many big companies and governments are trying to force us to see only certain things.

Stop that! Back to the early 90's.