News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by reaperducer on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:14PM (#22141463)
When the media and establishment are repeatedly caught misleading the public, the result is the proliferation of conspiracy theories and a culture of distrust

Conspiracy theories happen whether the media is trustworthy or not. They existed many hundreds of years before there was mass media.

There's just something about certain people that makes their brains click, "That logical thing doesn't make sense to me. But this crazy thing does. And I need to tell everyone about it."

The internet has enabled the third part of that like never before.

Before the internet, it was whackjobs in online fora. Before that they were on BBSes. Before that, shortwave radio. Before that, books, pamphlets, fly posters, leaflets, and handbills. Before that, they would just stand on street corners shouting.

Most of the non-electronic methods still exist and are used frequently. From the guy with the megaphone walking around the Chicago Loop bitching about the FBI in his brain to Screamin' Jesus on the street corner of Lock Haven, Pennsylvania.

The promise of the internet was to give everyone an "equal voice." We probably should have solved mental health first.

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by lend000 on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:45PM (#22142270)
You might be surprised by some of the people who hold unconventional views (hint: they aren't all crazy people yelling into a megaphone, and many of them keep their views relatively quiet to avoid being ostracized). It's a spectrum; there are the incredibly naive people who only believe what is 'mainstream.' Then there are the paranoid people who will believe absolutely anything that challenges the 'mainstream' thinking on a subject.

The people with the most accurate view of reality lie somewhere in the middle and do the critical thinking for themselves. The reality is that conspiracies do and always have existed, and the mainstream today is very different than the mainstream 100 years ago, which was different 100 years prior, etc. (because those mainstreams were proven wrong on many levels, as our current one will be).

Ask yourself honestly: would you have been on the side of the Catholic Church in the Galileo inquisition, had you lived in that time with your personality?

On the other side, would you have been a patron of the charlatan John Taylor had you lived in his time? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_(oculist)

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by catalogia on Friday January 24, 2020 @06:28PM (#22143361)
Part of the problem is the very term "conspiracy theory" and what it actually means.

Back in the 60s after John F Kennedy was murdered, there were two broad schools of thought; that he had been murdered by a man acting alone (no conspiring) or he was murdered by a man[men] acting in coordination with others (conspiring.) Thus in this case you had people who believed the official narrative, and everybody else, who had theories "about conspiracies." This particular case seems to have been strong enough to effectively redefine the term "conspiracy" to mean any theory contrary to the official narrative.

The problem is that in other cases, such as 9/11, the official narrative is a theory about a conspiracy. As are all of the alternative theories. In the case of something like 9/11, literally everybody agrees the numerous perpetrators conspired with each other; the disagreement arises over who exactly those conspirators were. In the 'proper' sense of the term "conspiracy theory", everybody believes at least some conspiracy theories. But in this new modern sense of the term, "conspiracy theory" applies to only to those who contradict the officially endorsed explanation of events.

(Incidentally in the specific case of JFK, only a minority of Americans believe the official one-man narrative: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-one-thing-in-politi... Was it the mafia, the CIA, the Russians? Somebody else? Who fucking knows. But most people don't believe Oswald acted alone.)

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by Proziam on Friday January 24, 2020 @11:52PM (#22144772)
Terminology is a surface issue, another (possibly larger) problem is the amount of 'conspiracies' that have actually been proven to be true over time. Worse, because some conspiracies have for-profit motives behind them, it taints any source who repeats such claims, "They've been paid off by..." Two obvious examples that most people believe now: fluoride is bad for you, and we had little to no justification to go to war in the middle east after 9-11.

The problem is trust, and many of the world's governments and corporations (I would probably argue most) have proven to be unworthy of the public trust.

Really sad bonus thought: If you see what happened in the aftermath of 9-11, and look at how much money is made from warfare - how much of a stretch do you think it is for an otherwise typical person to believe it's an inside job?

This is why I don't watch the news anymore.

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by paulryanrogers on Friday January 24, 2020 @05:19PM (#22142980)
Having been raised in a charismatic Christian family, I suspect many of us would have sided with the religious authorities. Kids are so impressionable and it's hard to break out of a way of thinking when your whole community and identity is built around it.
Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by LinuxBender on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:23PM (#22141554)
I have a slightly different take on it. From what I have seen, conspiracy theorists, some of them at least, will see snippets of truth and will start to fill in the blanks. Their methods of communication are usually filled in with passion and emotion. The end result often looks "crazy", but has bits of truth that have to be sifted out. I've learned to pay attention to some of the nutters, because they may not really be entirely nuts. Rather, they may have serotonin balance issues and communication problems. I have found more often than not that they were right more or less, at least partially. Alex Jones is actually a prime example of this. Most of the things he has espoused for many years have actually turned out to be true, but when he communicates these ideas, he sounds really out there. I personally know a couple people just like him. It's the same story. They see a series of events. They try to put them together and are usually just a little off base. The real problem is how they convey the picture. I find that I have to calm them down and "bring them back to earth" to find out what they really saw.
Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by Aperocky on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:41PM (#22141729)
> espoused for many years have actually turned out to be true

I would say some of the things that he premised on was true. But the idea he developed base on those things are nuts. it's not how he communicated them, it's just what it is.

(example not necessarily from Alex Jones, but just e.g)

US flag furled up on the moon (correct) -> like the wind blew on it (visual observation) -> it means the wind must have blown on it (fallacy) -> we never went to the moon.

Jet fuel cannot melt steel (maybe? correct) -> Therefore the fire it had on the world trade center cannot cause structural failure (does your chocolate not soften before it melts?) -> US did 911.

The premise can be true, the idea can still be bs.

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by LinuxBender on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:00PM (#22141880)
For sure, there are a list of things he was way off base. I am just saying, there were many more things he was spot on and many of us thought he was just a nutter. My bigger concern around these folks is that individuals can exploit their characteristics by showing them snippets of true malfeasance, wait for them to get emotionally spun up and start making a fuss, then the malfeasance becomes something that nobody dare speak of, for fear of being associated with the "nutter". At least, if I were going to hide something big, that is probably one technique I would use. Let the nutter start spinning off the hinges and then nobody would dare talk about my evil plans.
Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by jakeogh on Friday January 24, 2020 @05:36PM (#22143064)
dv/dt #7 == g for over 100 ft (according to NIST)

There is a ~40min video in my profile that is just footage from the day and mainstream technical talks afterwards.

CB hacks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21057230

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by jfengel on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:33PM (#22142170)
Unfortunately, that kind of conspiracy theory isn't just reserved for isolated nutjobs. Trying to remain neutral about it, it is either the case that tens of millions of Americans believe in a conspiracy of scientists to promulgate a hoax about the climate, or tens of millions of Americans believe in a conspiracy of business interests to hide the reality of climate change.

That's not an ordinary difference of political opinion. One side or the other is engaging in conspiracy-theory thinking, at a vast level. (Or, I suppose, both.) I don't just mean that they're talking about a conspiracy, but applying all the hallmarks of paranoia, shifting goalposts, and bad faith that mark conspiracy theorists.

And that's just one example. It applies down the line, of many issues. This is the one that perhaps illustrates it best, but it's not mere partisanship. It's people needing to be "brought back to earth", as you said, but at a level involving many millions of people.

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by creaghpatr on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:46PM (#22142276)
>It's people needing to be "brought back to earth", as you said, but at a level involving many millions of people.

That's the kind of talk that leads to re-education camps.

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by jfengel on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:58PM (#22142378)
I made a point of not taking sides. I'm just pointing out that the problem is very large, regardless of who's right.

I'm also not proposing solutions. I'm sure there are many who would propose re-education camps -- that, too, is an indicator of the magnitude of the problem.

I'm actually quite short on ideas for solving it.

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by ng12 on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:20PM (#22141523)
> The promise of the internet was to give everyone an "equal voice." We probably should have solved mental health first.

This idea that you're only allowed a platform once you've been "fixed" is exactly what pushes people towards conspiracy theories in the first place. It's a reaction to authoritarian mono-culture.

Re:Amazon Prime video gives amateur how-to’s, conspiracy the... by mc32 on Friday January 24, 2020 @05:49PM (#22143141)
I don’t know. I’d like to think if the media were not distrusted then they’d be more credible as authorities in discrediting crackpot theories.

Unfortunately they wasted their credibility over the years and can’t be trusted to be reasonably unbiased and without agenda.