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Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by londons_explore on Thursday January 23, 2020 @05:38PM (#22133055)
Somethings up with transit data feeds in general...

Creating a transit data feed typically requires local knowledge, technical knowledge of data feed formats, and access to make changes to the data feed.

Actual transit providers typically lack the technical knowledge, especially for making day-to-day service updates. Transit enthusiasts lack the access to make changes to the feed. Google and mapping companies lack the local knowledge.

End result: Probably half the worlds population's local bus/train isn't accurate/present on Google/Apple/OSM maps.

How can this be solved? Perhaps some kind of feed-wiki so the three interested parties can do human collaboration?

Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by lqet on Thursday January 23, 2020 @06:08PM (#22133325)
> Actual transit providers typically lack the technical knowledge

This is actually getting better, as most of the transit providers already rely on software companies that provide their own route planning software for passengers and/or administrative software like tools to create the actual schedule with. These companies are slowly getting better in providing standardized feeds.

I am skeptical that something like a feed-wiki would work, both because of vandalism, and because schedules are usually incredibly complex. You may have noticed that your bus starting at 14:30 from station X was scheduled incorrectly, but does this service has this mistake every day? What about the 3 days a year where this bus has a slightly different schedule? If the bus travels every 5 minutes, and each trip has this mistake, you have to manually check hundreds of trips per day if they contain this mistake. Automation is difficult here, because trips that occur frequently are very often not grouped by any mechanism (although for example GTFS provides such mechanisms).

I think the better way is a legislative change which requires all transit companies to submit their schedule data to a central authority, which then publishes the merged schedule.

There is now (since the beginning of 2020) a new EU regulation [0] which basically pushes for an EU-wide multimodal route planner and schedule dataset (published in a special format, NeTEx). This makes it now possible to rely on the data of existing national schedule aggregators, which have been checking and merging timetables of all national transit providers for decades. For example, in Switzerland, the national railway company SBB does this (GTFS feed published here [1]), in Austria its also the national railway company ÖBB, and in Germany, its Deutsche Bahn (GTFS feed published here [2]).

[0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2017/1926/oj

[1] https://gtfs.geops.ch/

[2] https://gtfs.de

Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by londons_explore on Thursday January 23, 2020 @06:39PM (#22133607)
>most of the transit providers already rely on software companies that provide their own route planning software

This doesn't seem to apply to mid size networks and smaller.

For example, when tree falls and blocks a road, in a midsize network there'll probably be one admin-person in the office who decides what to do about it. Usually they'll just print off a paper sign saying "All services to X won't go past Y today", then ask a driver of another service to put that sign at each stop. They'll log into the website and put a banner at the top saying the same, and they'll ring the local radio station to announce it.

At no point does that info ever go into a computer in a machine-parsable form. Even if it did, timetables are probably saved in a big MS Word document.

Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by lqet on Thursday January 23, 2020 @06:50PM (#22133691)
Indeed, but you are already one step ahead with real-time updates. This is an entirely different beast than static schedule data. In my experience (I occasionally talk to people in the industry), even providers of public transportation in cities with over 500,000 inhabitants have trouble providing reliable and machine-readable real-time information (like: this trip is cancelled today, this trip is 5 minutes delayed at station X, there is an additional trip Y today, expect delays this afternoon because of Z, ...). At least where I come from, the solution was that the state government decided to build a centralized infrastructure for all providers to use. Real-time information is displayed there on a website which also provides a real-time route planning. The real-time data is also available in machine-readable form.

It is a lot easier to convince a small bus operator in a rural area to just enter cancellations / delays into a website than it is to convince him to buy and administer servers and software to built its own real-time service.

Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by cbhl on Thursday January 23, 2020 @05:49PM (#22133149)
The Transit app crowd-sources this from users who are using the "Go" feature in select markets.

There's also the Tripshot model -- an enterprise product where drivers install an app on a cell phone to track ridership, and it also sends the gps coordinates along.

That said, the other arcane part of transit directions is that if you update or break your feed, you have to wait hours or days before the result shows up on Google. (Sigh, batch processing...)

Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by londons_explore on Thursday January 23, 2020 @05:57PM (#22133223)
You know you can request Google scrape your 'static' feed at any interval you like, down to 10 minutes IIRC? Contact the maps-transit team with your feed URL and they'll update it for you.

They only scrape daily by default because some transit providers host their multi-gigabyte GTFS feeds for all bus arrivals for the next century on an ISDN line...

Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by ant6n on Thursday January 23, 2020 @07:28PM (#22134037)
Transit is also run by a bunch of transit geeks, who also invest a lot of time in getting local knowledge and fixing feeds. Just a simple example, they will add colors to the transit lines in a feed, so that in the app they show up the same way as on maps etc.
Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by bobthepanda on Thursday January 23, 2020 @06:01PM (#22133256)
A major issue with relying on drivers is that if the real-time position of a driver is known, you can see both what they're doing and what they're not doing. Which is bad if you want to get away with, say, taking longer breaks than you're supposed to.

Anecdotally, at a local system I once used there was an issue where drivers were intentionally not turning on the locating tracking, or configuring it incorrectly, because of this.

Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by eurg on Friday January 24, 2020 @05:19AM (#22136881)
As an aside, sometimes local data-providers prohibit use of transit data by Google, with the result that you have to use an inferior route planning tool.
Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by asdff on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:33AM (#22136426)
Google can not get it right in LA. Ghost busses are common, either on the app and not there in reality or right in front of you and not there in the app. The times are basically fixed; if it says the buss is 12 mins away, it will still be 12 minutes away 12 minutes later. If there are two routes that can take you down the exact same road to the exact same destination, you will be randomly assigned one route due to all of the above problems and be unable to view any information at all about the other, as if it doesn't exist.
Re:Fixing Google Map Transit Feed Mistakes in Taiwan by xmzx on Thursday January 23, 2020 @05:52PM (#22133172)
Boston's public transportation developers are great at what they do. Their v3 API is extremely good. And that's why Google Maps and all the other transportation maps for the Boston area are very good. The map and transit app developers can only do so much themselves.