News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by fludlight on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:23PM (#22070185)
Everyone is tired because they are overworked: engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, bankers, police, cooks, janitors. Long shifts, split shifts, long commutes, homework, constant interruptions, questionable management practices, weak labor laws, weak enforcement thereof, asymmetric legal costs, self-training on your own time, expectations of faster and faster turnaround times, less and less support staff...
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by alexashka on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:33PM (#22071032)
From my personal experience, there are two camps: people who are working hard, and people who are on cruise control.

Because so many are on cruise control, anyone who wants to make something happen has to work to make up for the lethargy all around him/her.

I don't think it has ever not been this way except for short stints where entire tribes felt a sense of urgency. Most people's idea of an ideal life is sipping cocktails by the beach and gossiping about who said what. There is some wisdom in that :)

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by agumonkey on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:12PM (#22070894)
Who's investigating the reasons behind all the burnout and erosion everywhere ?
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by pryelluw on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:23PM (#22070972)
Probable some overworked and underpaid grad student.
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by dilap on Thursday January 16, 2020 @10:40PM (#22071652)
I think it's just a consequence of a free market/capitalism. Everyone is competing w/ everyone, so working as hard as possible, to beat the competition.

Remedies? Either cultural (it just becomes unthinkable to work beyond X, because that's taboo) or legal (limits on how much you're allowed to work).

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by arvinsim on Thursday January 16, 2020 @10:55PM (#22071706)
It's also because the productivity gains that we have is captured by businesses rather than the employees.

Being productive doesn't give you more free time. It just means that you get more work.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by munificent on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:31PM (#22071877)
> is captured by businesses rather than the employees.

"Businesses" don't really do much of anything. What you really mean is the billionaire executives at the top of them.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by seem_2211 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:49PM (#22071947)
Well yes, but the majority of it is captured by the middle class, in the form of public pensions, 401k's, the stock market etc.
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by TuringNYC on Friday January 17, 2020 @02:25AM (#22072608)
How much of the market is actually owned by the middle class? I would say not much in the US.

See page 44 of the paper below.

You can look at Income, Wealth (net worth) or financial resources. Net Worth is probably the best estimate. You'll notice the top 1% has ~40% of the wealth. The next 4% have ~30% of the wealth.

So it would be very inaccurate to suggest that the "majority" of wealth and upside is accrued to the middle class, at least in the US.

"Household Wealth Trends in the United States, 1962 to 2016: Has Middle Class Wealth Recovered?" Edward N. Wolff

NBER Working Paper No. 24085 Issued in November 2017 https://www.nber.org/papers/w24085

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by lostcolony on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:35PM (#22071892)
Well, shareholders
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by agumonkey on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:22PM (#22071830)
One hint was the rise of new management with generic new chiefs with no field experience and few human skills. Highly inhuman large scale management too (playing with people's mind, parking them), profit seeking rather than service and dignity.

I'm convinced that a lot of people would be ready to work 'harder' when the work is well organized and done.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by wheelerwj on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:21PM (#22070957)
what do you mean?
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by beamatronic on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:30PM (#22071864)
Is there any other way to live in America ?
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by war1025 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:49PM (#22071946)
Assuming your comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but yes.

If you level-set your expectations you can live a very laid back life.

Particularly in the software industry where you can get paid twice as much for working half as hard compared to most other fields.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by forgotmypw38 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:43PM (#22071918)
Unsubscribe from job, unsubscribe from rent, trade remaining assets for a good sleeping bag, become neo-indigenous.
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:50PM (#22070375)
How did you conclude that “everyone” is overworked from this article?

The managerial class notion of overwork/busyness is completely voluntary.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by chao- on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:18PM (#22070932)
Yes but those voluntary hours are necessary signaling to justify one's place in the contemporary social order. Without them, someone's peers might think them undeserving of their salary and/or status. So they wouldn't want to be the one VP at the company who has adequate leisure time, fulfills family obligations, and regularly gets a full night's rest. Or if they are somehow that person, they keep quiet about it!

I began typing this intending it to be sarcastic, but at its conclusion, I am no longer certain about that.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by azinman2 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:25PM (#22070601)
According to what? Just because you're not in survival mode in the truest form of the word doesn't mean you aren't trying to maintain whatever you have. Expectations can still be set, email doesn't turn off, and personal relationships (kids, family, friends) continue on, along with personal goals, health, increased cost of living, etc.

Just because it's 'voluntary' doesn't mean it's not work or it's not stress or it doesn't affect you.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:34PM (#22070653)
my point is there’s a lot of people who complain about work that could in theory never work another day in their life again but do for non-financial reasons anyway
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by azinman2 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:59PM (#22070806)
Sounds edge case-y (and only decreasing as wealth inequality increase)... but as you said, there are other reasons that keep them going. It’s not about “survival” in the most basic sense. That doesn’t make it any less real to those people.
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:34PM (#22071035)
$1M savings should last a life time if aggressively invested. If you have no dependents then 5-10 in a managerial class role should get you there
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by azinman2 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:40PM (#22071911)
I don’t understand your point. 39% of the country would have to borrow to cover a $400 surprise medical expense. Not many have $1MM in savings to “aggressively invest” (what does that even mean? Risky investments? Which means sometimes the luck will run out?). I also don’t know many ordinary managers with $5-10MM in savings. That’s quite some income, and those people must not be married with kids.

Regardless, none of this negates that they can still feel valid pressures no matter what their success is. Typically having such success invites even more pressure as one is expected to keep it up, either by others or themselves. Few make it to such largess without overworking themselves.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-04/the-40...

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:49PM (#22071953)
I mean you’re proving my point exactly. People who have the savings to not work convince themselves that their identity is their job and do it to “keep up.” My point is that is all in your head, and if you’re going around complaining about how busy you are you then you’re doing it voluntarily and not because you will literally be homeless if you stop.

$1M in a high quality REIT can generate 12% dividends, which is $120K. A single person could easily live off half that.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by TuringNYC on Friday January 17, 2020 @02:30AM (#22072633)
>> $1M in a high quality REIT can generate 12% dividends, which is $120K.

Are these 12% dividends normal or sustainable? Have they continued over the years? Could you name a couple of sample names/tickers?

>> A single person could easily live off half that.

True -- perhaps not half but you are forgetting taxes!

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:36PM (#22079645)
You can live off $60K pre tax as a single person even in a high cost city. I don’t spend more than $3.5K a month total right now in a normal month in SF.

Taxes are not that high at that level of income.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by TuringNYC on Friday January 17, 2020 @02:29AM (#22072629)
I'm assuming you're speaking about the US.

If your health insurance coverage denies any procedure you consider necessary (which they do not), you're looking at 6 figure bills. These balloon with age. I'd agree on the $1M figure, but only without the monkey wrench of US healthcare.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by firecall on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:51PM (#22070760)
How many is 'a lot'?
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:23PM (#22070969)
I don’t know but I think a lot of people (no dependents) could live off $1M in invested savings for the rest of their life.

5-10 years in a managerial class role nets many that much.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by yibg on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:26PM (#22071846)
I see these types of comments here quit a bit, and I'm guessing they're mostly from folks with no kids or ever having kids.

Certainly there is an argument to be made for working less and living with less, but for most people $1M invested doesn't check out. If you're relying solely on returns from that investment, then conservatively you can only safely withdraw 3-4%, which works out to 30-40k a year. That's close to full time on minimum wage in some states. While that's enough to survive, not sure if that'd be a fulfilling life for most, even while single. What happens if you have a family later?

EDIT: Also not sure how many can actually save that much in 5-10 years. That's 100k - 200k of savings after tax. Even with compound interest, that's pretty tough for most I would think.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:44PM (#22071923)
There are REITs that generate 12% dividends you can easily buy, which would be $120K before tax. 3-4% is extremely conservative and you could certainly withdraw more.

It’s also less about “never making another dime working” and more that you don’t need a traditional 9-5. You can and should figure out other sources of income.

Re:VCs Are Just Tired by yibg on Friday January 17, 2020 @12:18AM (#22072092)
There are investments that return 10+%, but that doesn't mean that's how much you should take out every year. The 3-4% (usually 4% for retirement savings) is to buffer for years where you get negative returns. I've never seen anyone recommend withdrawing 12% a year with plans to have the nestegg last a long time.
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by tempsy on Friday January 17, 2020 @12:56AM (#22072264)
I was suggesting 6% not 12%. You can live off $60K as a single person even in higher cost cities pretty easily. Taxes aren’t actually that high even in CA at that level.
Re:VCs Are Just Tired by theklub on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:37PM (#22070675)
Outsourcing of support staff...