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Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by abstractbarista on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:35AM (#21834734)
Its so simple for me. Just like with weed....

Legalize it!

Why are we concerning ourselves with how people pleasure themselves in private? It's disgusting.

Of course, have law enforcement root out the kiddie stuff, and have a legal framework to ensure safety (STI testing, etc) but my goodness, the efforts we currently go through to catch consenting adults in mutual benefit...

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by codingdave on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:16AM (#21835059)
Sex trafficking is not consenting adults. There is a significant difference between a sex worker who voluntarily engages in their profession vs. people who are forced into it.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Lazare on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:37AM (#21835760)
> Sex trafficking is not consenting adults

By the dictionary defintion, this is true.

If you look at what gets called "sex trafficking" in the media, by politicians, by police and prosecutors, and in some cases, by the legal system, this is not true. One common definition is anyone who travelled across state (or country) lines has been trafficked, which is a bit like saying anyone who moves to SF for a tech job is a victim of human slavery.

It's not uncommon for a crackdown on sex trafficking to not find a single victim of sex trafficking (or anything else), but still result in a lot of arrests (overwhelmingly of women) and self-congratulatory press releases. The mind boggles.

In any case, the fight against "sex trafficking" (aka, consensual sex between adults) absolutely harms many victims of actual real trafficking. And bluntly, people who haven't yet got the memo yet and think the phrase is still only being used against actual unethical behaviour are making this worse.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by anon9001 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:07PM (#21838709)
> which is a bit like saying anyone who moves to SF for a tech job is a victim of human slavery

too real :(

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Zak on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:32PM (#21838938)
I don't like the term "trafficking" for this reason. We have better terms, and criminal charges available for people who force or pressure someone into sex work against their will, including slavery, rape, and coercion.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by macinjosh on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:01AM (#21835422)
Current laws make no distinction between the two. The State calls all prostitution 'sex trafficking'. So yes.. by the government's definition consenting adults is sex trafficking.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by shams93 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:27AM (#21835150)
If you legalize it you can arrest the human traffickers while enabling professional sex workers to be professionals just look at the enlightened approach to the problem taken by Australia. No brothels allowed and no pimps but independent sex work is legal.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by 9nGQluzmnq3M on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:46AM (#21835299)
Brothels are allowed in most (but not all) Australian states including NSW (Sydney) and Victoria (Melbourne), they're just tightly regulated.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Fjolsvith on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:05AM (#21835456)
Plus, you'd have the assistance of legal sex workers in rooting out the traffickers.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by briandear on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:43AM (#21835836)
Any evidence of that being true? Some sex worker is going to helpfully point out how Alex is bringing in East European “models” or how Miguel just brought some girls up? And what’s going to happen to the legal sex workers when they start snitching on the Rudaj or Zetas?
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Fjolsvith on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:04PM (#21838075)
There hasn’t been a recorded murder of a sex worker in Vancouver in nearly a decade. [1]

1. https://www-macleans-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.macleans....

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Fjolsvith on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:00PM (#21838020)
Any Canadians want to weigh in on this?
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by rm_-rf_slash on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:09AM (#21835488)
Nice use of Aussie slang, mate.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by nsxwolf on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:33AM (#21835740)
Nothing's funnier than Aussies watching American baseball in a pub during the 7th inning stretch... "...Root, root root for the home team!"
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by nsxwolf on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:30AM (#21835691)
I used to live next door to a brothel in Sydney.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by fw_double_e on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:46AM (#21835296)
so you're advocating for regulatory capture? That'll go just like the legal pot industry; prohibitively expensive licensing that only goes to the already big players in the game.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Fjolsvith on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:07AM (#21835469)
Except the sex industry isn't at all as scalable as the pot industry. You can't grow a field of ass and sell it yourself.

Plus, the cost of entry is pretty low, I hear.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by yters on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:53AM (#21835945)
Robot sex will be the next big thing.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Koshkin on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:31PM (#21838928)
Nah.. VR will do just fine.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by throwno on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:57AM (#21835391)
Wow, if prostitution is legal that means we can have prostitution startups, and prostitution IPOs! Corporate prostitution backed by SoftBank and Saudi sovereign wealth! What a world we're making!
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Fjolsvith on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:02PM (#21840903)
Is that what's happening in Canada?
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by GhettoMaestro on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:08AM (#21835473)
I’ll permit regulatory capture, rather than accepting “pimp-hand” capture.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by bitwize on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:23AM (#21835619)
The FBI treats all prostitution as trafficking. If it crosses state lines, they will get involved and treat it as a trafficking case, irrespective of consent or adulthood of the parties involved.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by celticmusic on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:56AM (#21835383)
Not in the US there isn't, they still go to jail.

That law didn't just affect sex traffickers, it affected ALL sex workers. Craigslist famously shut down its personals as a result of it.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by commandlinefan on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:18AM (#21835560)
There's also a significant difference between a grocery store worker or a maid who voluntarily engages in their profession vs. people who are forced into it. That's why forced labor (slavery) is illegal and you go to jail for engaging in it.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Shivetya on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:30AM (#21835694)
if you can legalize adult sex work there stands a good chance the trafficking side would decrease as there would be a legal outlet.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by throwno on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:22AM (#21836272)
Working in a nail salon is legal, but that doesn't stop them from employing trafficked workers.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by ralusek on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:32AM (#21836376)
Yes but is your solution to make nail salons illegal?
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by throwno on Saturday December 21, 2019 @09:03AM (#21851222)
Nail salons don't capitalize on vice.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by ralusek on Saturday December 21, 2019 @03:11PM (#21853115)
Sex is vice?
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by grzm on Saturday December 21, 2019 @03:16PM (#21853138)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice#Law_enforcement

> In the United Kingdom, the term vice is commonly used in law and law enforcement to refer to criminal offences related to prostitution and pornography. In the United States, the term is also used to refer to crimes related to drugs, alcohol, and gambling.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by throw_m239339 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:18AM (#21835066)
> Why are we concerning ourselves with how people pleasure themselves in private? It's disgusting.

Because "legalizing it" doesn't stop sex trafficking or sexual exploitation, in fact all evidences point to the contrary, it increases sex slavery.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/12/17/the-child-sexual-abuse...?

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by throw_m67657 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:32AM (#21835728)
The article paints a sad picture ...although your conclusion seems far fetched. Even marriage can be made into paid rape by the wordings of that article.

AFAIK ... decriminalization allows for

1. The sex worker to approach authorities without any fear of prosecution.

2. To set up freelance sex work without pimps and brothels.

There shouldn't be a debate about this. Criminalization makes things worse at the expense of moral tidiness.

Regulated sex work allows for

1. Brothels

2. Strip clubs

3. Massage parlors

4. Sex Therapists

If the regulators are corrupt or weak or there are no strong checks ... then the model will be as bad as an unregulated market and will actually be worse as it allows trafficked victims to work under quasi-legal protection. That's what the article implies.

From what I know the nordic model has a large number of social services that help sex-workers quit the profession if they wish to and helps sex-workers unionise.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by throw_m239339 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:56AM (#21835989)
Nothing you said is a rebuttal to my previous comment. Please argue with sources or it's just your opinion, and it's irrelevant as it doesn't answer the question of whether "legalizing" sex work decreases sex trafficking. It clearly does not according to my sources.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by throw_m67657 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:53AM (#21836626)
Both buying and selling sex should be legal. The decriminalization of nordic model still fines buyers and stigmatizes it.

My views are largely shaped by the sex worker in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DZfUzxZ2VU

Criminalizing doesn't even offer protection for the sex worker. I'd rather argue about that than having some debate on numbers.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by ActorNightly on Thursday December 19, 2019 @06:58PM (#21840542)
Even if the sex work is legalized and regulated, you still have a much higher demand than supply, which is what creates the human trafficking problem.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by briandear on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:50AM (#21835914)
> From what I know the nordic model has a large number of social services that help sex-workers quit the profession if they wish to.

Interesting. Do they have social services for those that wish to quit computer programming? Or quit hair dressing?

The fact that there needs to be a social service around this particular profession is indicative that this particular profession is probably harmful to the service provider and it probably also means that this isn’t a profession that a girl willingly accepts and perhaps there is value to not promoting this industry.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by josinalvo on Friday December 20, 2019 @12:17AM (#21841874)
Maybe they should have for jobs that are physically dangerous/have a high incidence of workplace physical or mental harm. Like, say, working on a mine.

The argument goes like this:

Person A is in such a bad situation that A will accept a job that is terrible!

Prohibiting the job has a good chance of making A worse off (usually, A will accept the job if A thinks it is an improvement over the current situation)

However, we can let A accept the job, and then try to offer A even better alternatives!

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by Nasrudith on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:06AM (#21836107)
Personally I see plenty of reasons why independent of industry value.

It is also a more physically oriented job that carries some risk of disease exposure, really shouldn't be worked sick, and some accounts mention an emotional toll and an emphasis on appearance. Individually all aspects aren't unique and some have more severe magnitudes.

Given the income is higher than many other available jobs it could be easy to become dependent upon it for income. A good ethical reason for support is that consent is an ongoing process.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by excalibur on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:49AM (#21834838)
There is no federal prohibition against prostitution like there is against marijuana. This can be effectively accomplished at the State or even local level. Talk to your representatives, start ballot initiatives.

Another avenue that may be worth exploring is opening brothels on reservations, similar to casinos.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by blackearl on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:09AM (#21834981)
Rhode Island accidentally did it for a while.

(yes accidentally) - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/17/when-...

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by dragonwriter on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:15AM (#21835045)
> There is no federal prohibition against prostitution like there is against marijuana.

Not directly,at least applicable to the states, but there are a variety of federal prohibitions around the sex trade which complicate it, and there'd probably be federal will for a direct ban if most states didn't prohibit it entirely and the fee remaining didn't prohibit it in most of their territory. Neither major party broadly supports legalized prostitution, for superficially different reasons.

> Another avenue that may be worth exploring is opening brothels on reservations, similar to casinos.

Not possible without changes to federal law, federal law prohibits prostitution on tribal land, while casinos are regulated by federal law which allows them with tribal-state gaming compacts.

Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by SN76477 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:57AM (#21834891)
pursuing most crimes are not worth the social or financial impact.
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by sqldevuser on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:46AM (#21835860)
sex trafficking is objectively not right. What is wrong with you?
Re:Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Un... by logophobia on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:49AM (#21835898)
He probably means legalizing prostitution, which would (hopefully) reduce trafficking if the demand can be met legally.