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Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by cortesoft on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @02:15PM (#21828219)
Sadly, a lot of people's interests (or their interests combined with their lack of ability, connections, etc) don't put enough food on the table.

"Forget about the rest of the world" isn't helpful if someone has a family to support, or even themselves. It is pretty privileged to think everyone can choose to only work in a field of their choosing... I don't know if many janitors have an 'interest' in cleaning toilets... they have an interest in supporting themselves.

I have always appreciated Mike Rowe's views on work and this idea... it is ok to just work to make money, and find meaning in other parts of your life.

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by eeZah7Ux on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:28AM (#21833323)
> It is pretty privileged to think everyone can choose to only work in a field of their choosing

Have you ever read Bukowski before writing this? He worked odd jobs he loathed to support himself. He was fired often. He spent part of his life homeless.

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by asdfman123 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:15PM (#21828925)
You're right, but I meant that implicitly in my comment:

> it is ok to just work to make money, and find meaning in other parts of your life.

That you have to make that clear is a testament to how crazy work and more specifically developer culture is these days.

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by perl4ever on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @06:51PM (#21830729)
Why isn't it meaningful or fulfilling to do a "dirty job" that other people need done?

It seems like people just get stuck with the contradiction that if they are good people, they must care about others, but they don't like doing things for other people.

I've noticed that a lot of people in IT seem to gravitate towards a position in which they have power...to say "no". If you like saying "yes", you will go down a different road. And yes, I know the typical responses to that and why you shouldn't do that.

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by GarvielLoken on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:21AM (#21835096)
Well, isn't this exactly what the Author did? He worked blue-collar jobs for decades and "putting in the real work at the typewriter before each shift at the day job".
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by slothtrop on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @02:25PM (#21828314)
I think this is in address to creative types. It's ok to be a creative and have a day-job.

I'll say this, though. I hate development less than I would one of Rowe's jobs.

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by nsxwolf on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:00PM (#21829406)
This is why we should have Basic Income!
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by vanusa on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @02:37PM (#21828452)
Then you just have to decide what your primary goal is:

Is it to create a piece of (truly) original artistic expression?

Or is it to... put food on the table?

Both are perfectly valid. But -- as you are correct in noting -- quite different.

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by homonculus1 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @02:52PM (#21828638)
Everybody's primary goal is to put food on the table! You must be pretty insulated from the hard realities of life if you think people can simply treat survival as optional.
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by medion on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @04:03PM (#21829429)
Putting food on the table for yourself is pretty damn easy. But if you want a house, kids, a wife, a nice car, etc, then it gets exponentially more difficult.

So, there is a choice available for creative people who don't wish to compromise: They can be fully into their work at the expense of the above cultural norms - perhaps if they are very successful in their niche they can have those things too, but there could be a very long or infinite period of their lives where this is not possible - that's the sacrifice.

I'm so sick of the 'I can't do XYZ because I have kids and a mortgage' talk - well maybe you should have thought about the long term ramifications of kids and a mortgage?

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by homonculus1 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:19AM (#21834602)
Okay, I agree with you. I guess "put food on the table" has a connotation of providing specifically for others and not just yourself, which I wasn't considering.
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by aphextim on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:03AM (#21834933)
As my father phrased it when I moved out at 18, "Make sure you have food on the table and a roof over your head, the rest is just details."
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by vanusa on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:19PM (#21828985)
Everybody's primary goal is to put food on the table!

I meant your goal in choosing to do creative work, obviously.

Not in a hierarchy-of-needs sense.

Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by cortesoft on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @07:19PM (#21830880)
But I was speaking in a hierarchy-of-needs sense. Not everyone gets to the point where you can choose to do creative work.
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by keiferski on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @09:18PM (#21831508)
I recommend reading some biographies of famous creative people. You’ll quickly learn that a sizable portion of them lived in poverty, took on enormous debts, or died young.
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by cortesoft on Thursday December 19, 2019 @12:41PM (#21837203)
Are you suggesting that is correct choice to make?
Re:“Don’t Try”: The Philosophy of the Hardworking Charles Bu... by keiferski on Thursday December 19, 2019 @01:22PM (#21837643)
Obviously one should try to avoid poverty, debts and early death. But if you are truly dedicated to your creative field, then sure, it's clearly the correct choice. Having a family, buying a house and other middle-class living standards are choices, not necessities. If someone isn't willing to make some sacrifices for their art, perhaps they aren't meant to be great at it in the first place.

Otherwise, when will you pursue your art? In the next life?