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Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by jandrese on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:43PM (#21705471)
It was a problem only Apple was really poised to handle thanks to its vertical integration. The rest of the industry was stuck in the chicken and egg situation where the chip builders didn't own the software stack--the people doing the software were in different companies.

The transition only works well if both the software and hardware are upgraded in tandem. For Apple this is no problem, but for the rest of the industry you have to be willing to put a lot of work into a product that won't do anything until the other side catches up. It's much more risky. The general sense seemed to be that they were waiting for memory sizes to grow large enough to force the issue until Apple just went ahead and quietly pulled the trigger.

What is less forgivable is just how much of a performance gap the Android market is seemingly willing to tolerate between the latest A* series chip and whatever the fastest Android chip is. How is Qualcomm not terminally embarrassed to announce brand new chips that are two years behind what Apple is currently shipping?

Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by mschuster91 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:58PM (#21705661)
Because the competition in the ARM mobile/SoC vendor area is thin. There are Samsung, Qualcomm and Mediatek plus a few underdogs no one cares about (Nvidia, Intel). Apple is no competition as they don't sell to outsiders which means there is no competitive pressure to improve. Look at the utter shit that Mediatek dares to sell (ever looked at one of their BSPs? I'm surprised there are not daily CVEs!) and yet they're highly profitable.

Plus, AWS/Google are also actively gobbling up silicon design talent to fight Intel and AMD on the server area, which is a problem as designing powerful server cores is way easier than designing SoCs for mobile devices.

Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by wmf on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:59PM (#21705676)
How is Qualcomm not terminally embarrassed to announce brand new chips that are two years behind what Apple is currently shipping?

If we assume Qualcomm is trying as hard as they can, what's their alternative? Ship nothing? Commit corporate suicide in shame?

Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by jandrese on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:04PM (#21705746)
Engineer better and faster chips? It's not like Apple has some insurmountable process node advantage here or an ISA advantage. Everything is still some flavor of ARM.

I guess I'm saying that it doesn't seem like Qualcomm is putting in as much effort as they should. It should be embarrassing for them.

Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by simonh on Thursday December 05, 2019 @05:07AM (#21711188)
There's no incentive for Qualcomm to catch up. The flagship handset manufacturers have nowhere else to go and really only competing with each other.

Faster chips also mean more expensive chips, which would erode their price competitiveness against the iPhone especially since they don't have the volumes of the iPhone. In particular A series chips have huge and higher spec caches compared to the Qualcomm chips, which take a lot of die space, which is the prime factor in chip costs.

Finally, for Qualcomm to bring out a super-premium A series killer they would have to know, for a fact, that all the Android manufacturers would adopt it. If they didn't the per-unit costs would make them prohibitively expensive. They just don't have the guaranteed volumes. If enough manufacturers passed, the project would be a financial disaster. It's just too risky.

Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by wmf on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:10PM (#21705798)
Check out Samsung who had 290 people designing custom ARM cores... that were no better than stock ARM cores. I suspect there's some cultural or organizational reason why Qualcomm or Samsung could spend infinite money and still end up worse.
Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by scarface74 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:39PM (#21709776)
Why should they? The high end Android market is minuscule. It’s all a race to the bottom.
Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by User23 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:08PM (#21705787)
> It was a problem only Apple was really poised to handle thanks to its vertical integration. The rest of the industry was stuck in the chicken and egg situation where the chip builders didn't own the software stack--the people doing the software were in different companies.

Isn't open source supposed to solve for this? What was stopping them from updating the OS along with their hardware? The only reasons I can think of are unkind enough that I'll not list them, but I'd love to hear if there's a good reason I missed.

Re:A7: Apple's custom 64-bit silicon embarrassed the industry by wmf on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:40PM (#21706662)
Perhaps there could be an alternate history where Android is collaboratively developed by phone vendors, but in practice Google does almost all the work and phone vendors port it and add some proprietary customization. Because of that same dynamic, no one phone or SoC vendor could have afforded to unilaterally add ARM64 support to Android.