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Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by dpcan on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:29AM (#21648642)
I cannot even think of a single person in any of my networks of people who would buy this and put it in their home. It has "hell no" written all over it. It's almost arrogant or bizarre that they would try to launch such a product given how people feel about Facebook and privacy.

I suppose it's simply to satisfy shareholders who think Facebook needs to compete in this market????

It's the Zune of the Living-Room Assistant space in my opinion.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by bogwog on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:09AM (#21649060)
The average person tends not to care too much about their privacy. It's an abstract problem, and it'd take an extreme like video evidence of a Facebook employee jacking it to a nude photo they discretely captured from your webcam while you were in the bathroom.

Just look at the Oculus Rift. The "sensors" are literally webcams connected to a Facebook app that you point at your living room, your bedroom, your kids, etc. Yet people see a new toy and none of that matters. Even tech-savvy and privacy conscious people will contort their world views to justify the purchase.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by umanwizard on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:54AM (#21649528)
> The average person tends not to care too much about their privacy.

This is not quite accurate. The average person cares a lot about privacy, but understands privacy differently from the HN/tech/anti-Facebook zeitgeist.

People care about privacy from people they know. They care about whether their parents, significant other, coworkers, and friends can see things they intend for them not to.

Most people don't care about whether private information about them is collected and stored on servers without any human ever looking at it (even if, hypothetically, some humans with nefarious intent could look at it someday). But this is an extremely narrow interpretation of "privacy".

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by netsharc on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:45AM (#21648794)
I've seen TV ads for Portal and one version of it is a grandpa telling us viewers how great Portal is for connecting him and his grandkids, showing off the auto-pan feature (the kids ran around their living room and the device's camera followed them).

So I guess they're targeting non-techie elderlies for one.

I wonder if you're just in a bubble when you say what you say. I'm in my city's FB group for youths and one time they were doing some excursion where tickets were age-dependant (discount for under 26s). The admin asked the people wanting tickets to post their names and DOB, and there were maybe 50 replies to that post with the asked information...

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by zhobbs on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:05PM (#21649630)
I'm considering purchasing one. In general, I value convenience and personalization over privacy. I completely don't relate to the idea of relevant ads being a bad thing.

Anyways, as someone who spends a lot of time panning a laptop or iPad to track a toddler who is FaceTiming grandma, this device solves an important problem for us.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by starbugs on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:36PM (#21649987)
The problem is it doesn't end with relevant ads. It doesn't even end with Cambridge Analytica. The business model of Facebook is absolutely clear. You are the product and the currency is you. If they can convert that to real $ they'll do it by any means without thinking about the implications. FB has proven again and again that they are incapable of considering or do not want to consider the wider implications of their actions. It's absolutely toxic and your actions today will define the future your children will be living in tomorrow. I personally think that it would be great if that future wasn't 1984 on steroids.
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by monkeynotes on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:27PM (#21649883)
I think this is the truth of the world we live in. People want this stuff so bad that they are willing to give away a lot in exchange.

The other component is apathy, many people are just resigned to the fact that they will be surveilled one way or another.

I can foresee huge implications for all of this, it doesn't take much to get from here to using these devices to aid law enforcement. I know the argument is 'if you have nothing to hide... it keeps the kids safe...' but it all smells of a conformist dystopia.

Edit: I have a bunch of Google Homes, I count myself in the apathetic group, sadly.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by fossuser on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @04:01PM (#21652102)
I think there are also acceptable trade-offs.

The video is encrypted and content from the call cannot be used. If this was not the case I wouldn't buy it.

The other things they say they'll use from it are in line with what I already expect from having a FB account in the first place.

The portal even has a built in camera cover/off switch in hardware.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by CivBase on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:39AM (#21648740)
> It's the Zune of the Living-Room Assistant space in my opinion.

I loved my Zune. I wouldn't touch a Portal with a 39.5' pole.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by JensRex on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:28AM (#21649260)
I agree, but it's not very different from Alexa or Google Home, and people are buying those, for some reason.
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by umanwizard on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:59AM (#21649581)
Why is owning an Amazon Echo any worse for privacy than owning a smartphone?
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by tcd on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:36AM (#21648709)
People have purchased - and installed - Google Home (and Mini's) and Alexa's in their homes. They think they're "cute", and offer a valuable service to them. They are a microphone controlled by data raping giants.

People use "Assistants" and enable full tracking technologies on their devices ("See how great it is Google has your every location on a map for the last decade").

People have not only accepted but embraced a full surveillance and tracking society; even if YOU don't accept it, you're part of it, people may add your contact to their phone that will be gobbled up in seconds by Facebook/Google/et al.

People don't care. End of story.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by danShumway on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:49AM (#21648835)
I don't think it is. The difference is that Gmail/Amazon aren't hated the same way as Facebook is. People aren't smart about surveillance, they're not smart enough to realize that giving Instagram access to their phone is a bad idea.

But, there are 2 perfectly capable home assistants on the market today that (right or wrong) aren't part of the same consumer-level narrative about privacy, and people like simple, straightforward, black-and-white narratives, like "Facebook cameras in your house are watching your child so that targeted ads can turn them into a nazi." That's a simple story, it's easy to remember and think about. Even ordinary, privacy-uneducated users like that story.

It's totally feasible to me that this device will flop due to privacy concerns. Scanning around quickly online, I can't see a single positive review (even from mainstream publications) that doesn't end with, "but of course Facebook is evil and you'd have to be stupid to trust them with a camera in your house."

I suspect Facebook just lost the narrative on this. They should have called it "Instagram Portal", and then the consumer situation would be completely different.

Most of my siblings have Alexa devices in their house. It's a privacy nightmare, but they don't care. Even so, none of them would be dumb enough to buy a Facebook portal. It's not even a sacrifice -- Alexa/Google work with more devices and have more features.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by matz1 on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:57AM (#21648911)
>People aren't smart about surveillance, they're not smart enough to realize that giving Instagram access to their phone is a bad idea

I've seen this argument a lot, the issue is not people are not smart enough but people have different value toward privacy. I understand tech and yet I'm fine and even supporting this kind of tech. I understand its really hard and sucks to be in the side where you think is nightmare but other people think is not an issue. But thats the reality, people can have different value.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by umanwizard on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:56AM (#21649556)
Why is owning an Echo device any more of a privacy nightmare than owning a smartphone? The Echo is not always listening/recording; it is activated by a wake word.
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by danShumway on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:29PM (#21649902)
First, the Echo is always listening for a wakeword, and just because of the inherent limitations of the device, will occasionally get wakewords wrong. By default, Android phones don't listen to wakewords when locked, and can be easily configured to require a button press before listening.

Second, the microphone on your smartphone is less powerful than the microphone on your Echo, and your smartphone isn't omnipresent in every room of your house simultaneously, including guest bedrooms.

Third, (opinion me) Amazon is a slightly less trustworthy company than Google, and a much less trustworthy company than Apple.

And finally, you can outright turn off assistants on your phone (and should). An always-on virtual assistant run by Google that always listens even when your phone is locked is also a privacy nightmare, but there's pretty much no reason to have that.

If you're paranoid about the security of carrying a microphone that could be enabled via software at any time, you can also install a custom ROM on your Android device that uninstalls Google Assistant and non-FOSS software entirely. LineageOS is really good, I highly recommend it -- it's just not feasible to install for regular, nontechnical consumers.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by myrakle on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:18PM (#21649784)
There were multiple instances of Echo waking up when the user didn't utter the wake word.
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by umanwizard on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:19PM (#21649801)
And smartphones are immune to misrecognizing "Hey, Siri" ?
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by input_sh on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:14PM (#21649739)
So, in other words, Echo is always listening for that wake word?
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by umanwizard on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:17PM (#21649765)
Sort of. AFAIK it's listening with a dedicated circuit that only recognizes the specific word, not with a general-purpose listening device.

Again, how is this different from a smartphone that will wake up when you say "Hey Siri" ?

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by nannal on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:39AM (#21648738)
They don't need to deduce anything, I'm already doing that when I visit the bathroom.
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by cryptozeus on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:11PM (#21649703)
You are clearly not their target audience. Really zune if living room space, come on man.
Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by schwartzworld on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @12:14PM (#21649741)
Zune was awesome. It was a phenomenal device, and anybody who owned one would tell you that.

https://medium.com/@shiriendamra/why-the-zune-failed-1327845...

TLDR: iPod already dominated the market, and the zune wasn't marketed aggressively enough.

Re:Facebook Portal – Privacy review by Havoc on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @03:19PM (#21651661)
>I cannot even think of a single person in any of my networks of people who would buy this and put it in their home

And yet Alexa, Siri etc are fine to many