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Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by mc32 on Sunday November 03, 2019 @04:47PM (#21436875)
>”The need to grind out a day at the office or the shipyard or in the truck hauling cargo saps a person's freewill.”

I’m not sure of that.

Couple of things. I’ve worked with working class people. They may complain about the job or the boss, but if they didn’t do one of those jobs, they’d feel less empowered.

I’ve heard people essentially say I don’t want to be on welfare but I can’t get a job. So they'd prefer a job to being on the dole.

Two, people with lots of time and nothing to do tend to just while away time, either in the form of any kind of entertainment or some times in counter productive activities. Doing “make-work” actually gives people some purpose.

I’m saying UBI will bring other unintended problems. I think UBI could be like people who have dogs and give them all they need [like UBI] but don’t take them out for walks. Work, any kind of work is like taking the dog out for a walk.

Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by zozbot234 on Sunday November 03, 2019 @04:54PM (#21436938)
People having "nothing to do" is a self-inflicted problem of modern societies. There's plenty of stuff to do, all over the place. Just because it might not meet some wholly-arbitrary standard of a 'living', 'sustainable' level of productivity doesn't mean it's "make-work".
Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by iknowalot on Monday November 04, 2019 @03:23AM (#21439830)
People will leave the mundane and repetitive to automation and focus on what they find truly fulfilling, utilizing "creative intelligence".

Creative intelligence involves always striving for the new thoughts, fresh ideas, novel ways to solve problems....repetition makes people mentally weak and depressed.

Many of the problems we discuss today about humans in the era of automation have already been addressed in ancient Indian philosophy (many millennia ago). This isn't new....

Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by fierarul on Sunday November 03, 2019 @10:19PM (#21438753)
> I’m saying UBI will bring other unintended problems. I think UBI could be like people who have dogs and give them all they need [like UBI] but don’t take them out for walks. Work, any kind of work is like taking the dog out for a walk.

I like what you are saying and thought that perhaps this is why politicians seem to be so hyper-focused on jobs. They may realise better than most people jobs have other roles except producing an income.

Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by darepublic on Sunday November 03, 2019 @10:55PM (#21438894)
So how about we force people to dig holes and then fill them up again, in order to get their UBI?

Giving people pointless bullshit jobs for its own sake sounds like insanity to me. Yes being able to live without working will pose a challenge to humanity, but it's a challenge we should face. The alternative is mandating that people do something even if it is really useless or impedes a more efficient system because we don't trust their ability to figure out how to live well on their own.

Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by cmxch on Monday November 04, 2019 @12:46AM (#21439306)
What happens if someone wants to do make-work, especially if it's for something significantly greater than basic income?

Being on the current analog of UBI(SSI/SSDI) is not pleasant, as much as you might think. A decade of low income idleness, equally low job prospects, and low opportunity for change is very demoralizing.

If it meant that one was fine being the IT/CS equivalent of an overpaid toll booth operator, nothing wrong with that. Either they end up finding something better or finish off their career doing something more than being idle.

Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by zozbot234 on Monday November 04, 2019 @05:39AM (#21440398)
There's no such thing as a "current analog of UBI". SSI/SSDI forces you to be idle if you want to receive it, while you would definitely be allowed to work (and perhaps even expected to, because reasonable UBI proposals are quite on the lowish side) under UBI.
Re:Ray Dalio says the global economy is under threat by darepublic on Monday November 04, 2019 @06:28PM (#21447879)
To work UBI needs to be a survivable income, and also granted even if you make more than it already. That way it can be used as a safety net for the helplessly poor, a very valuable additional source of income for the working poor, and a buffer to let people actually try to implement their ideas instead of do 'make work' like an overpaid toll booth operator. The people who want to do something more valuable than work a toll booth should be prioritized over the people who wish to impeded the entire progress of humanity so they can be overpaid to do make work (dont' know if those people exist as abundantly as you seem to assume)