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Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by blotter_paper on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:34PM (#21412113)
I mean, Signal is open source and not owned by Facebook, so I'm not sure why anybody uses WhatsApp instead.
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by shantly on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:56PM (#21412332)
Last I checked Signal's UX was worse enough that I'd be fighting a real uphill battle to get my friend group to switch.
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by blotter_paper on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:00PM (#21412369)
That's reasonable, I suppose I'm lucky to have a friend group that universally prefers open source sorftware to good UX -- there was never really a question for us.
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by smeyer on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:25PM (#21412622)
It's a little eye opening to me that anyone could have a friend group that "universally prefers open source software to good UX".

I have and use Signal with some friends, but there are also loads of people I communicate with who couldn't even tell you what open source software is, let alone articulate a preference for it over good UX.

Are all of your friends software engineers and/or technophiles?

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by blotter_paper on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:40PM (#21412785)
I don't have many friends, TBH. I've got 2 friends who use normal SMS, and a group of 6 friends (not including myself) who use Signal; of those, three of them are software developers and one of them uses R at work though software development isn't her primary job. The other two are probably more aware of open source software than they would otherwise be due to peer exposure. It's also worth noting that one of my developer friends got the rest of us into programming, though three of us had been running Linux before that -- it's not that I've disproportionately made friends with software developers, it's that a group of people I'd been hanging out with for years assimilated a software developer who converted the rest of us. There may have been some MDMA involved in that.

Edit in case of potential ambiguity: s/a couple of/2

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by emerongi on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:44PM (#21412842)
Exactly.

When all your friends are already using Facebook and you start telling them to use Signal instead... well, I can tell you from experience that it's almost impossible to break the status quo.

What has happened to me is that usually there's 1-2 persons from each friend group who care enough that they will relay information to you through Signal.

I still don't have a friend group that is 100% Signal. For that to happen, more than 50% of the group would need to care enough about privacy to completely abandon other communication channels and accept the cost of switching platforms. The rest would probably follow. In reality, I don't have a single non-tech friend who would give a fuck about encryption. You tell them about Signal and they go "cool", that's it.

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by lightedman on Thursday October 31, 2019 @09:28PM (#21415519)
"It's a little eye opening to me that anyone could have a friend group that "universally prefers open source software to good UX"

Plenty of us still prefer using command-line to this very day. Most of my work is still done on DOS 6.22.

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by smeyer on Friday November 01, 2019 @02:00PM (#21421884)
I like the command line and it doesn't surprise me that other people do too. What surprises me is that there are people where an entire friend group universally prefers open source over good UX, since plenty of my friends couldn't tell you what the terms "command line", "open source", and "UX" mean.
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by 0xdeadb00f on Thursday October 31, 2019 @06:38PM (#21414503)
The UX is fine IMO. They've been improving it. I have a couple non tech savvy friends that use it and they're fine with it.
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by kace91 on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:16PM (#21412534)
Because everyone uses it. Once a social app becomes mainstream it gets a giant advantage due to the amount of inertia needed to switch entire social circles to a new platform.

Most new social platforms that make it big don't really take over older ones, they just grab a younger generation - usually just by being the network their parents aren't in.

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by wp381640 on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:32PM (#21413903)
You don't understand why people use a communications app with 1.6 billion users as opposed to one with likely less than a million?

It's network effects

In my own anecdotal experience Signal ranks way below Viber (popular with migrants + expats), Wickr (popular with people doing illegal things and corporate executive scheming), Telegram (popular in crypto, scammers and terrorists)

The only real broad use of Signal i've seen is amongst journalists - and even there i'm not certain how much they actually use it or if it's just the "i'm crypto aware" version of a blue checkmark for their Twitter profiles

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by vocatus_gate on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:40PM (#21412182)
It's a much better app, user experience-wise. I prefer Signal for obvious reasons, but WhatsApp is easier to use (and has a much better web interface).
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by Canada on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:23PM (#21412599)
I agree, but when the people you want to talk to are on WhatsApp already...
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by cardiffspaceman on Thursday October 31, 2019 @04:53PM (#21413617)
Not only are there network effects, but as you go through various cities in Latin America you will notice on the billboards that mobile service providers advertise "free" WhatsApp. As a result of the success of those ads, your contacts in that region will prefer WhatsApp to other media.
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by tomcooks on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:42PM (#21412820)
People use it because other people use it.

Signal's lack of a web interface is another reason.

Moreover, Telegram took the users that left WhatsApp for more secure alternatives (even though Telegrams homemade encryption doesn't look promising).

Same reasons why a lot of people don't leave Facebook.

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by maximente on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:44PM (#21412215)
they have features signal has not yet copied and probably won't (statuses e.g.)
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by dylan604 on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:14PM (#21412513)
The main one being actual users
Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by rodgerd on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:48PM (#21414062)
The Signal client is open source. The back end not so much.

A lot of Signal is basically "trust Moxie".

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by eitland on Thursday October 31, 2019 @11:57PM (#21416160)
> A lot of Signal is basically "trust Moxie".

Let me come out and defend Signal (I usually defend Telegram, but I don't think we should be unfair to anyone):

As far as I am aware no one who knows what they are talking about has come out with anything that says Signals end-to-end encryption is broken.

If I have understood it correctly an as long as that is true, NSA, FSB and the Chinese might be running the message handling together and there's still no reason to be worried that your messages will be intercepted in transit.

Disclaimer:

- as far as I am aware Signal is the safest messenger available for everyone

- even if all the above is true you are still trusting them with your metadata. I think they are good people. If you are scared of them, be aware that they know who you talk to and when. This is however true for any mainstream technology as far as I am aware.

- being good at crypto doesn't make them immune to bugs. There was a nasty vulnerability a few months ago that was remotely exploitable. Again, this is the same, or even worse for every other messenger.

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by f1refly on Sunday November 03, 2019 @06:12AM (#21433214)
>As far as I am aware no one who knows what they are talking about has come out with anything that says Signals end-to-end encryption is broken.

You have to check xmpp with omemo, it has libre servers and in federated

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by blotter_paper on Friday November 01, 2019 @10:42AM (#21419332)
> This is however true for any mainstream technology as far as I am aware.

It's too bad bitmessage can't scale :/

Re:NSO hacked WhatsApp to spy on top government officials at... by frabbit on Thursday October 31, 2019 @10:24PM (#21415767)
And most of that is coming from MattGreen and Ptacek.