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Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by saagarjha on Friday October 25, 2019 @12:00PM (#21356274)
> More likely, gas stations lose out to places people will be at anyway to charge (grocery stores, work places, parking lots/structures, etc).

This isn’t economically practical unless you have subsidized charging. It’s significantly cheaper to charge my car at home than it is to use some random public charger.

Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by danans on Friday October 25, 2019 @12:37PM (#21356679)
A motivating example for this is someone who drives the 80 miles from Austin TX to San Antonio to spend the day with friends.

With only a 150mi range EV, a 15-20 min fast charge would be enough to comfortably do the return trip that same day without range anxiety.

Existing gas stations (or parking lots) could serve that use case, which is fairly common in the US, where mid distance trips are almost completely car based.

Today, they could charge the same or lower price/mile-of-range as gasoline and make a large margin, since electricity is less than half the price of gasoline per mile (at retail prices, there's an even bigger difference with wholesale prices).

Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by SEJeff on Friday October 25, 2019 @01:58PM (#21357528)
Why would you buy an EV with 150 miles today, in 2019, when EVs much better than that exist? The "standard" range Tesla Model 3 has 250 miles of range. The Long Range Tesla Model 3 cars is 310 miles whereas the long range Model S does 325 miles of range on a single charge.

You could comfortably do that entire trip on a single charge with existing EVs. Volkswagen is about to release their ID.3, which which has 3 variants ranging from 205-340 miles of range. In a year or two, the range anxiety "problem" with EVs will simply be a noop as EVs will have longer range than most ICE vehicles.

Disclaimer: I own a Model 3 AWD LR and am a big fan, but also own a 2011 Ford Fiesta

Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by danans on Friday October 25, 2019 @02:31PM (#21357863)
> Why would you buy an EV with 150 miles today

Because they are cheaper. And many will by high mileage EVs on the used market. A 200mi EV will have a lower usable range later in it's life, but otherwise work great. For example, I can imagine buying a used Chevy bolt for my kids to use around town 8 years from now.

Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by SEJeff on Friday October 25, 2019 @03:17PM (#21358289)
GM doesn't even make the Volt anymore and it was only ever a car for compliance with federal emissions laws. It might be harder to get parts for it in 8 years as a result. In 8 years I suspect there will be a dearth of really good used EVs on the market, Teslas, Volkswagens, Fords, and Toyotas included.

But on the price you make a good point. That will come down over time as more and more companies make good EVs.

Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by danans on Friday October 25, 2019 @04:52PM (#21359138)
> It might be harder to get parts for it in 8 years as a result

A Volt is a PHEV, which is an ICE+EV, with the associated complexity and wear.

Pure EVs, however have far fewer parts to replace, and put very little wear on those parts. Most of the wearing parts are pretty generic, like tires and brake pads (the latter being replace rarely). AC induction motors also have a very long lifetime.

The most specialized part on an EV that wears the fastest, the battery, is reusable/replaceable.

Already today, there are people taking battery packs from totaled Teslas and installing them in classic cars like the VW bus. There is a shop in southern CA replacing drivetrains in classic cars w/ EV drivetrains [1]. So I can totally see replacement batteries being produced by aftermarket manufacturers for existing EVs in a number of years. Of course the vehicle manufacturers themselves probably won't supply those replacements, but cars aren't mobile phones, and I bet that right-to-repair will resonate with people a lot more with EVs.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neYuohLzVdg

Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by dcooper8 on Saturday October 26, 2019 @02:05AM (#21362011)
OP said the Bolt, not the Volt.
Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by mikeyouse on Friday October 25, 2019 @02:20PM (#21357760)
The standard Tesla Model 3 costs at minimum $10k more than the entry level Nissan Leaf (which happens to get 150mi range). That's a substantial amount of money for most of the world.
Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by toomuchtodo on Friday October 25, 2019 @05:32PM (#21359457)
Standard Model 3 is the average price of a new vehicle in the US. 17 million new cars a year in the US, and I assume China is a big market as well with Gigafactory 3 coming online.
Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by mikeyouse on Friday October 25, 2019 @07:08PM (#21360122)
Right.. I'm very bullish on Tesla and on EVs in general but I was responding to "Why would anyone buy a similar, lower-range car that's 25% cheaper" which doesn't seem like a complicated question.
Re:Offshore wind to become a $1T industry by toomuchtodo on Friday October 25, 2019 @12:01PM (#21356278)
We're not comparing home charging to fast charging though. We're comparing fast charging locations to other fast charging locations. Home charging is absolutely going to be cheaper due to no demand charges, but for where people elect to fast charge, you colocate where they will already be. At work places, you would want to provide charging current rates as high as possible without incurring demand charges. This is not to hand wave away street parking charging! This is definitely an issue, but there have been great strides in developing charging stations for street use (integrated into light poles, for example). Does you locale have Dig Once policies (call to action: get involved locally if they do not!)? Throw some fiber in there while you're upgrading street power!

At home, I charge using power from Exelon's nuclear fleet at 1-6 cents/kwh (Time of Use plan). I want to stress: most people will plug in every time they arrive at home and charge at home. You will leave your house every day with a full charge by doing so. Supercharging costs me ~30 cents/kwh, so $10-15 for an 80% charge. Regardless, the costs are so low I don't care either way, I come out ahead versus gasoline (previously $40-60 per fill up) no matter how I charge. I literally don't even think about it when Tesla dings my credit card for Supercharging. It is annoying to use a J1772 public charger (install adapter, swipe Chargepoint card, troubleshoot why the station isn't providing current), so I avoid using those whenever possible.

In the US, you are never more than 150 miles from a Tesla Supercharger, and of course the network will continue to grow over time: https://supercharge.info/map