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Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by WalterBright on Friday October 25, 2019 @05:28AM (#21353241)
Back in the 1980s, I thought it would be great to add German, French, and Japanese error messages to the compiler. I hired native speakers to do the translations.

But nobody cared. Programmers program in English.

I once traveled to Finland to visit a customer. Everyone in the office spoke in English. I asked if they were just being polite because I was there. They said nope, their staff was from all over Europe and the only language they had in common was English.

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by azernik on Friday October 25, 2019 @06:58AM (#21353733)
Europe is to some extent a special case - even outside of software, English is the pan-European lingua franca; lots of college-educated people know a lot of it even before getting into tech. In places like China, or Central Asia, or the Middle East, this is not as much the case, and so picking up English skills add a further barrier to entry to the field.

(Europe is only a special case "to some extent" because English also competes for lingua franca status with Hindi in India; in Japan it's taught (badly) as a result of connections with the US; and in countries as varied as Israel and Singapore it has a foothold.)

If you're starting from first principles, and are willing to go with that common-second-language threshold instead of insisting on people's first languages, English is still definitely a clear first choice - it barely edges out Chinese for total L1 + L2 speakers, and those speakers are concentrated in the centers of software development.

After that you have Chinese and Hindi (both fairly restricted in geographical reach, but involving lots of people), then Spanish (most of Latin America) and French (spoken in a dizzying array of cultures as L2, because of colonial history in Africa and the Middle East).

And then you finally get to Arabic :-P

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by pgeorgi on Friday October 25, 2019 @05:51AM (#21353348)
As discussed elsewhere in the thread, the few dozen keywords are a different matter (and are just memorized to mean "make the computer do ..."), but having useful error messages from your compiler helps get stuff sorted out more quickly.

There are, to this day, people who get in trouble when their computers reply to them in English, including coding folks. I bet they were (and are) thankful for initiatives like yours, but they won't have the vocabulary to tell you.

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by cowsandmilk on Friday October 25, 2019 @06:49AM (#21353667)
> having useful error messages from your compiler helps get stuff sorted out more quickly.

The definition of useful varies though. Many people starting out don't have the ability to understand some error messages, so being able to search for the error message is most useful. If everyone in the world has the same error message, finding an explanation for the error is a lot easier.

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by pgeorgi on Friday October 25, 2019 @07:42AM (#21353982)
> finding an explanation for the error is a lot easier.

Two options:

1. LC_ALL=C $command to get the universal version of the error to search/report

2. Add a numerical error code that remains stable across locales

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by gggmaster on Friday October 25, 2019 @10:37AM (#21355362)
LC_ALL=C changes all the locale-related behaviors. I would try LC_MESSAGES first.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by Archit3ch on Friday October 25, 2019 @06:46AM (#21353648)
The tech community greatly benefits from settling on a lingua franca. Imagine if everyone posted on StackExchange using their native tongue.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by pgeorgi on Friday October 25, 2019 @07:47AM (#21354010)
> The tech community greatly benefits from settling on a lingua franca

Maybe we see that in a few years, with everything moving to Chinese.

> Imagine if everyone posted on StackExchange using their native tongue.

Imagine users going to forums in their own language. People actually do that.

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by astura on Friday October 25, 2019 @12:03PM (#21356310)
People have been talking about "everything will be moving to Chinese in the next few years" for the last ~20 years.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by pgeorgi on Friday October 25, 2019 @01:26PM (#21357203)
I'm well aware. But China is also the only country (or even bloc) in the world that's aiming for a fully internal supply chain for high tech. Not sure you can transform basic materials into a laptop (to pick one simple example) at scale without China anymore, but China is on a pretty successful track to do that without anybody else.

Once they get there, I'm not sure they have a lot of motivation left to do high-tech on foreigners' terms and in foreign languages.

While it doesn't follow that "we" need to learn Chinese then, whatever they'll use instead of StackExchange will simply outnumber the English version.

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by ripdog on Friday October 25, 2019 @02:31PM (#21357867)
For hardware, perhaps, but the Chinese have no realistic way to replace the rest of the world for software. If they want to sell their hardware to the rest of the world, English is the only realistic language to use for that. I see no evidence of mass learning of Chinese anywhere.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by Animats on Friday October 25, 2019 @03:09PM (#21358214)
The replacement for StackExchange already exists, on WeChat. More for hardware than for software.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by marcoseliziario on Friday October 25, 2019 @04:12PM (#21358783)
Probably the Chinese will embrace and extend the English language, the way the US did.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by pyrale on Friday October 25, 2019 @05:34PM (#21359468)
The US did not embrace english, the US were a set of english colonists who managed to absorb lots of foreigners with the clear contract that not adapting to their culture/language would result in bad outcomes.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by big_chungus on Friday October 25, 2019 @10:10AM (#21355091)
> having useful error messages from your compiler helps get stuff sorted out more quickly.

We're still struggling with this in english. Think about how often the default reaction still is to google a compiler error, unless it's one of a handful of common ones you see often. Compiler errors are often opaque, even to the best programmers that speak english natively. A significant base of software emits error numbers with thin descriptions at best, which then have to be looked up in a manual anyway.

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by skummetmaelk on Friday October 25, 2019 @07:35AM (#21353938)
Localized error messages are detrimental to solving the problem as googling the error message in a different language will prevent you from finding a solution in the main language.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by wongarsu on Friday October 25, 2019 @07:43AM (#21353989)
In compilers it's not uncommon to output an error code in addition to the human readable message. That allows you to google independent of language.

Of course if you turn on localized error messages you might actually prefer results in your own language.

Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by skummetmaelk on Friday October 25, 2019 @03:22PM (#21358340)
This sounds like it's coming from someone who has never had to help relatives fix their broken Windows PCs localized in a language spoken by only a few million people.
Re:قلب: a non-ASCII programming language written in Arabic by bjourne on Friday October 25, 2019 @08:44AM (#21354392)
I'd love to code in an all Swedish environment. But when the I18n is incomplete or poorly done, all English wins out. Better if 100% of the compiler messages are in English than a 50/50 mix of Swedish and English messages because then you have to context switch between the languages all the time.