News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by zelon88 on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:19PM (#21314783)
> In this case BoA are saving money but in exchange retain additional layers of staffing, that require oversight, and ultimately decision makers willing to take risks.

I think some companies, like BOA, look at this as the safer alternative.

We all assume that large Cloud providers are bulletproof. That's just because we haven't seen them taken down yet. Someday we will. Just wait until there's another major world conflict. These global companies with outsourced IT will be in ruins because politics and digital DMZ's will keep them from acting cohesively.

For an organization like a bank that's worth over $400b that layer of staffing, equipment, oversight, and all the inefficiencies are a $400b insurance policy that you will be able to continue operating regardless of geographic or political events outside of your control.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by TuringNYC on Monday October 21, 2019 @03:04PM (#21315976)
> In this case BoA are saving money but in exchange retain additional layers of staffing, that require oversight, and ultimately decision makers willing to take risks.

I've been at multiple Fortune 50 companies at multiple levels. Many times these types of infrastructure building are just forms of empire building and an attempt to embed ones' services in the organization at a very deep level. You convert one set of costs (AWS/GCP/Azure bills) for another set of costs (Infrastructure + Payroll). You also convert one set of headaches (CSP overcharging/auditing) for another (prima donna internal infra engineers.)

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by angry_octet on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:20PM (#21316841)
What's worse, someone being a prima donna or the unchangeable facts of AWS operation policies? You will always encounter roadblocks and misfeatures, but can you get around them?

Don't get me wrong, most corporate IT is deeply incompetent at their core job. It's just that you can't fix the deep problems by outsourcing the computer part.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by dodobirdlord on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:58AM (#21320736)
> What's worse, someone being a prima donna or the unchangeable facts of AWS operation policies?

There's this great thing about BOA-sized support contracts where you get to call up the senior product managers and demand that they build the features that you want. And if you're not happy about something, engineers will drop what they're working on to appease you.

I wonder how many customers were interested in setting up a Custom Keystore for KMS on CloudHSM?

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/are-kms-custom-key-sto...

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by kthejoker2 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:39AM (#21321167)
Can confirm, I'd say 20-30% of all Azure features come directly from the product teams' Partner Advisory Council (read: top customers) meetings. Like "snap your fingers" implementation.
Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by bonesss on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:51AM (#21322167)
And what's the alternative? Losing your biggest customers because you couldn't be assed to put a new button on some load-balancer configuration?

Of course, for small or medium customers whose finger snaps are ignored... WYSIWYG. The roadblocks in not-your cloud are still your roadblocks.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by kthejoker2 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:13AM (#21323785)
Sorry, I guess it wasn't clear that I wasn't complaining or anything, just confirming the facts on the ground.

But (in a vacuum) when developing a solution to serve diverse needs and stakeholders, the HiPPO effect is definitely an anti-pattern.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by meowface on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:21PM (#21318164)
Hopefully you'd think they compared those costs and still found the in-house option would be cheaper in the long run. Who knows, though, or who knows how accurate their estimates were.
Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by TuringNYC on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:06AM (#21320292)
Once you are deeply embedded with the in-house option, you have no competition. Sometimes distinct layers bleed into each other and things get even more messy to untangle. Also, sometimes due to embarrassment alone, you continue with the in-house option.

With CSPs, at least you have four major players (AWS, GCP, Azure, Oracle Cloud, ?IBM?) competing prices downward and multiple theoretical options. Yes, you have your in-house CSP expert biasing things, but since most of the work is external, at least you dont have a heavy internal weight on a home-built choice.

IMHO, the better option would be a CSP-agnostic Kubernetes based layer. But IMHO we're not there yet.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by Someone1234 on Monday October 21, 2019 @02:30PM (#21315597)
I believe you misread the quoted remark.

It was about decision maker's personal (career) risk when making decisions. Keeping things in-house means more decisions are taken in-house which increases personal risk to the management for getting things wrong. In context this is much clearer:

> This isn't simply about having fewer staff (although that can reduce internal politics and inefficiencies), but making fewer decisions and more importantly reducing the potential for making the wrong decisions (which can be career-costly, regardless of right decisions made previously).

The post above doesn't discuss cloud Vs. non-cloud security/safety at all.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by allthecybers on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:32PM (#21318263)
BOA also didn't (doesn't) really trust the public cloud. During several all hands meetings in the org, the inevitable question of "when are we gonna start using the public cloud" came up and the leaders would always say "we aren't because it isn't secure enough" or "we'd rather maintain our current governance model over what our devs build".

To your point, we need only point to recent events to show the universal customer pain that can be caused by a bad code push at Azure or AWS.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by snowwrestler on Monday October 21, 2019 @07:05PM (#21318548)
A factor that is easy for developers to overlook is that the legal system still cares who owns the hardware. So if all your stuff is at Amazon, a warrant can be served to Amazon and they will let the cops into your stuff. No contract can keep that from happening.

If a company (or person) really wants complete visibility and control into their relationship with law enforcement, they have to host their own hardware... ideally, their own data center.

Re:Bank of America's CEO says it's saved $2B per year by bui... by dwoozle on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:21PM (#21314808)
Exactly. Jeff Bezos tweets something that gets Xi’s panties in a ruffle and AWS is blocked in China and Bank of America can’t do cross border payments... no way should such a big company have their eggs in such a basket.