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Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by spking on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:55AM (#21259834)
> In 2016, researchers sent hundreds of résumés to high-end law firms. They were identical in degrees and grade-point averages, but researchers tweaked the extracurricular activities to make some candidates seem rich (sailing, classical music) and others seem poor (track and field, country music). At the end of the study, upper-class men had been invited to 12 times more interviews than lower-class men.

I think that says a lot more about "high-end law firms" than it does about American society at large.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Ancalagon on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:18PM (#21260169)
Side note: I had no idea track and field was considered a “poor” activity!
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by mikestew on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:36PM (#21260386)
As a former top-level high school/college track and field competitor, I can tell you that track and field has a much more "urban" flavor[0] than, say, sailing. I always took sports such as lacrosse to be "sports white people play", but I guess wealth could be an indicator, too. Dunno, I was never rich enough to find out.

[0] Yes, that high-pitched sound you hear is a dog whistle.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by flukus on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:27AM (#21267634)
Sports can be weird and very fluid indicators. In Australia where I grew up Rugby League was played in public schools and Rugby Union in private ones, so union was associated with wealth. 20 years later union is often played in public schools in the poorest areas by migrants from the pacific islands and the indication is reversing. Every second house a swimming pool there (and beaches), so swimming wasn't seen as a wealthy activity like it is in other parts of the world/country. If you compare between countries it gets even weirder, we inherited almost all sports from England but for them tennis and cricket are they snooty sports, here they're firmly working class.

Soccer and basketball for whatever reason seem to hit that egalitarian sweet spot.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by koolba on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:24PM (#21260252)
For most of track and field all you need is a half decent pair of shoes.

Contrast that to hockey, lacrosse, or polo.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by nerdponx on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:24PM (#21260250)
It's not "poor" as much as it's "not rich". Also, something to do with skin color.
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by jimbokun on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:58PM (#21261552)
(think of the demographics of many of the people who excel at many of those events...)
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by idiot900 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:21PM (#21261076)
People tend to like others similar to themselves. In this case, the upper-class people responsible for hiring presumably saw themselves in the upper-class resumes, and felt they had a better sense of who they would hire.

It's like golf: in business, playing golf made you more relatable to those able to advance your career, and so golf clubs proliferated. Whether you actually liked the sport itself was often a secondary concern.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Smithalicious on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @05:09PM (#21263812)
I also really doubt that the thing that's being encoded by "classical music" vs country music" is "rich vs poor" rather than "cultured vs uncultured". My immediate gut reaction is better for the "rich" hobbies than the "poor" hobbies as well, but it has nothing to do with me associating them with economic classes; the "rich" hobbies just seem more "sophisticated" and cerebral to me.
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by xhgdvjky on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:58AM (#21259870)
potentially OT: I wonder how they put music on a law resume

edit.. and for that matter sports... uni groups maybe?

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by np_tedious on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:15PM (#21260127)
New grads naming their club involvements during college is pretty commonplace, esp if they held leadership position in them
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by tyingq on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:37PM (#21260416)
An "interests" area is somewhat common as well. Also awards..."NCAA rowing championship" or similar.
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:39PM (#21260452)
I would rather hire a person who likes classical music than the one who likes country/rap/bieber. From my experience, people who prefer classical music are generally smarter.
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by whateveracct on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:14PM (#21260967)
The opposite could easily be said. If you cannot even try to appreciate country/rap/beiber, then you probably have some mental blocks yourself :)
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:42PM (#21261340)
My personal preference is not important when I hire someone to do a job.

All I am interested as an employer is a person's ability to do the job. The type of job I'm offering requires a person to be intelligent => I'll choose the one who likes Beethoven more than Bieber.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by tyrust on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @05:08PM (#21263786)
>My personal preference is not important

>I'll choose the one who likes Beethoven more than Bieber.

But that is your personal preference.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @06:19PM (#21264580)
For that matter, yes, but it is irrelevant for hiring since I'm not going to listen to music or discuss it at work. If we go to another aspect of my personal preferences, I dislike jazz, and rather indifferent to rap, but jazz beats rap for potential hires.
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by tyrust on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:34PM (#21265285)
>it is irrelevant for hiring

>jazz beats rap for potential hires

Are you intentionally contradicting yourself?

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Andrew_nenakhov on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @08:13AM (#21269511)
I'm not contradicting. Read more carefully. My personal tastes in music are irrelevant when I want the better candidate of the two options. And I will choose jass fan (all other things being seemingly equal) over hiphop fan despite I don't like jazz.
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by bigred100 on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:20AM (#21270591)
As I understand it, the hip trend among the elite now is to be a “cultural omnivore,” and has been for some time.

“The new…elite listen to classical and to rap; they eat at fine restaurants and at diners. They are at ease everywhere in the world. We even seem to demand this omnivorousness pluralism of our elite. We don’t want a patrician president; we want a man who knows how to act around the queen of England but is just as comfortable sitting in a lawn chair holding a beer summit….[Elites] are comfortable almost anywhere. It is as if the new elite are saying, “Look! We are not some exclusive club. If anything, we are the most democratized of all groups. We are as comfortable with rap as opera. We can dine finely or at a truck stop. We accept all!”

from this book Privilege: The Making of an Adolescent Elite at St. Paul’s School (2011), Shamus Rahman Kahn

The only people I know who only listens to classical music are 75 year old Russian math professors and pretentious upper middle class teens

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by iamasoftwaredev on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:54PM (#21260672)
So basically no one from a rural area and no black people?
Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:14PM (#21260962)
There are hardly black people deep in the Ural mountains, where I happen live, near the Siberian border.

Anyway. Affinity to classical music (or classical poetry, for that matter) comes not from cultural background, but from a certain level of intellectual sophistication. I don't buy the thesis that some people are born into an oppressed class and can't escape it. In our age education is easily accessible to anyone who has internet. One can learn any language for free, become a developer or a musician or a photographer, all it takes is some will to make yourself learn some marketable skills.

Of course, now you'll likely say that some people are oppressed and conditioned to be unable to escape their caste, but it's just nonsense.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by SolaceQuantum on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:28PM (#21261151)
"I don't buy the thesis that some people are born into an oppressed class and can't escape it."

How does this match with the economist that determined that climbing out of poverty requires 20 years of nothing going wrong on average? [0][1]

0. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economi...

1. HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16794514

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by wsy on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:30PM (#21261174)
Of course you can escape, but it is much harder. Love of music style is learned, and you learn it from your immediate social environment.

I recommend to read "Distinction : A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste" by Pierre Bourdieu.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @02:11PM (#21261724)
of course the music is learned from an immediate social environment! Precisely because of it, people who are capable to overcome their learned tastes and learn something else are way more valuable to any business.

You see, very few people these days are taught to like Beethoven, most just find him on his own. That is a sign of a capability to think independently, which comes from higher intelligence.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by wsy on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:33PM (#21262712)
People who grew up with classical music don't need to jump through that hoop. Or do you require them to acquire a taste for Hip Hop?

If not, then it is exactly as I pointed out before: the bar is much higher if you come from the 'wrong' cultural background.

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by BrainInAJar on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:11PM (#21260926)
there's no such thing as "smarter", even. That's a projected property not an innate quality.

People who prefer classical music are trying to project an air of sophistication and intelligence but aren't any better at anything than anyone else

Re:The 'glass floor' keeps the children of the rich at the top by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:35PM (#21261243)
Various studies [1] [2] seem to support the theory that people who prefer more complex music are generally more intelligent.

You also probably missed the part where I said, 'from my experience'. I know several people who rose from the extreme poverty of Soviet Union rural villages and shitty rural schools to university professor positions (basically the highest position you could achieve in USSR without participating in the Communist party activities), and you know what, for some reason, every one of them acquired a taste for classical music at one point of their lives. Coincidence? I think not.

[1] https://nypost.com/2019/05/22/smarter-people-listen-to-instr... [2] https://psmag.com/social-justice/classical-music-linked-to-h...