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Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by darrmit on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:15AM (#21247872)
I came here to say the same. I do have more issues with macOS than I did, say, 5 years ago.

However, the constant Windows update cycle is a nightmare and Linux still can't seem to get battery life and things like Bluetooth (audio inputs, etc.) quite right, so I'm left with hoping that Apple gets their stuff back together.

Operating system stability just seems to have declined in general in the last 3-5 years.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by lostmsu on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:01AM (#21248351)
Can you elaborate on what do you mean by Windows update cycle? I have a Mac Mini, that I rarely touch to check a new release of something on Mac, and practically every time I have to use it, an update is pending.

Not sure how this is worse, than Windows.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by airstrike on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:31AM (#21248677)
With Windows it feels the same way, except a lot of what Windows Update does runs silently in the background, sometimes during your most precious computing hours with no way to stop it except force quitting through the Task Manager. And half the time the updates fail. And when you quickly want to shut down sometimes Windows also forces an update...
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ufmace on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:42AM (#21249504)
Apple seems to love doing this too. It's just great when it decides to update iMovie and iTunes, huge apps which I have never used, when your battery is at 30% and you're on a terrible WiFi connection. It's hard to tell that the update is in progress at all, and seemingly impossible to stop.

Took me a while to figure out how to remove the apps I never intend to use and disable auto-updates for the ones I do use. It can be disabled yeah, but the auto-update is the default, and I have a feeling it will get mysteriously turned back on at some point, and I won't notice until it kills my battery at an awkward time again.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dkonofalski on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:59AM (#21249680)
>Took me a while to figure out how to remove the apps I never intend to use

It took you a while to figure out how to drag an app to the trash in the same way that deleting any other file works? =/

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ufmace on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:54PM (#21252785)
It's not clear that dragging an app to the trash is the "official" way to remove an app, and will remove all associated data, including whatever links it to the App Store, and causes the store to not attempt to "repair" the app by downloading it again or something.

It does seem that the "official" way to remove some App Store apps is to long-press on them in the Launchpad, and then click the "X" button that appears.

Maybe I was overthinking things, but IMO neither of these methods seem very discoverable or clear about what they actually do. Would it be that hard to put a clear "uninstall" button somewhere in the App Store? Android does this, and Windows mostly does too, AFAIK.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dkonofalski on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:45PM (#21253669)
>It's not clear that dragging an app to the trash is the "official" way to remove an app

How so? The "official" way to delete files on MacOS is to put them in the Trash. Support articles on Apple's site also show that dragging an application to the trash is one of the official methods of removing an application, unless it was a package installer.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by tekknik on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:59AM (#21258385)
it’s not clear because your thinking in the windows / linux world where you need to run the uninstalled or remove the package respectively. if you think about it, if you want to delete something what do you do? so i disagree, it makes perfect sense.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vbezhenar on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:39PM (#21251375)
Can you write uninstaller hooks to run when users draps app in the trash to remove caches and other stuff? I was embarassed by the fact that most applications in macs do not have uninstallers and their trash left around the system.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dkonofalski on Monday October 14, 2019 @03:10PM (#21251665)
Developers can, yes, and, in the cases where the developers didn't do this, there's also an app called AppCleaner that's free, lightweight, and can watch the Trash for applications that are deleted. It'll pull all references to the app in the library and remove any remnants.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by thesquib on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:10PM (#21253411)
And not to mention that you can't even remove some applications
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dkonofalski on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:09PM (#21260047)
Which applications can't you remove?
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by lostmsu on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:58AM (#21248940)
There is the active hours setting, and I have not seen an update fail in quite a long time (several years).
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ulises314 on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:15AM (#21249156)
This, everyone is complaining on how bad desktop OSes are now but even windows is great now, compared to mobile devices, desktop is heaven.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by tekknik on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:57AM (#21258361)
last i checked microsoft still doesn’t have scheduled boot times (granted this would likely be a bios setting on windows boxes) so i’d have to leave my PC on overnight to run the updates. it’s a bandaid, not a fix for the update problem.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by GordonS on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:22PM (#21261080)
You can use Task Scheduler to stop/start your PC at specific times.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by tekknik on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:51PM (#21266266)
Do you have anything to point to how to startup a windows box from cold boot using the Task Scheduler? Either I'm failing at google atm or you still have to schedule startup through the BIOS
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by GordonS on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:30PM (#21273749)
Gah, you're right - I set it up ages ago and haven't touched it since; it's set to sleep and wake automatically, not to actually shut down. You would need to schedule startup through the BIOS if you wanted it to fully shutdown (I'd done that with my previous desktop).
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by tekknik on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:55AM (#21258346)
it depends on the frequency of use of the mac. i’m in the same boat, just reversed (rarely touch my gaming windows pc but use my mac daily) and every time i boot the windows machine there is an update. most of the time windows needs a reboot as well. so imo the issue is the frequency of windows updates is higher, and has a higher chance of needing a reboot after the update.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by erikbye on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:04AM (#21248388)
Regarding Windows update cycle, you have the option of using LTSC, pausing updates for up to 35 days (yes, that's a built-in option now), or adjust update settings with GPO.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Spooky23 on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:16AM (#21248491)
You’re always fighting upstream that way.

Even at a massive enterprise with a 9 figure account relationship with Microsoft, they just won’t fix issues after a few weeks of release. The product groups will rope a dope you until you hit some product cycle milestone and then tell you to fuck off.

The company has laid off or reallocated everyone and moved them to Azure. It’s Windows latest or bust. Since Apple is a shitshow with Mac and Google is too mercurial to rely on, dumpster fire is the new normal.

If you can do it, the smart money right now is to invest in iOS and watch Chrome.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by derefr on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:05AM (#21249020)
I mean, the GP and most people who hear "fighting the Windows update cycle" assume you mean "fighting against being forced to interrupt your work and reboot to update" (the constant complain among Windows users) rather than something about intentionally avoiding new versions of the OS.

If you were an OS company and it were possible to force everyone to be running on master (and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities), wouldn't you, too?

But even then, this isn't true:

> It’s Windows latest or bust

Windows IoT Core is pretty stable. Wouldn't want your ATM or billboard rebooting every night. There are folks at Microsoft who remember how to do LTS software. They just don't think it's a good idea in a consumer product.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Spooky23 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @02:24PM (#21261892)
That's one perspective.

Microsoft moved to a model where addressing security updates, non-security failures and feature enhancements in rolled together into one stream of change.

You need to look at your risks systematically. If you're a billboard provider, uptime matters, and you update when risks exist that you don't have other controls for. In an individual or corporate use case, ymmv. Some people want the bleeding edge all of the time. Other people want a stable user and application experience, and apply fixes for security or functional errata only.

People ultimately make choices. From what I see, many people are doing the stuff that matters to them to the perceived stability of their phone. Schools are increasingly Chrome-focused. Enterprises are still Microsoft, but they are spending too much on Windows.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by a1369209993 on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:34PM (#21254774)
> and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities

That's not what running on master means. It means that all of your (many) security vulnerabilities are ones you don't know about[1] and random things keep breaking for no reason (and when you report them, it breaks in a way that's just different enough to let your bug report be closed as FIXED).

1: except (if you pay attention) the ones the developer advertises as 'features', like ssh with a default password of "password" baked into the kernel for "inventory management".

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vbezhenar on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:41PM (#21251394)
How can I obtain LTSC legally for reasonable price?
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by GordonS on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:25PM (#21261113)
I think you can use it if you buy the Microsoft Action Pack, which BTW is relatively unknown, and incredible value for what you get.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by computerex on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:28AM (#21247975)
Have you tried using tlp/powertop? I'd say my battery life is pretty comparable to Windows after having done some optimizations using aforementioned tools.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by i_am_proteus on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:00AM (#21248339)
Can confirm. Battery life on my T420 went from about 3 to about 7 hours after installing. No manual config necessary.

I mention "T420" because I think it's pretty manufacturer-specific. ThinkPad and XPS usually have good hardware support on commmon Linux distributions, but other laptops may not.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by darrmit on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:35AM (#21248043)
I have not, but will check it out. My problem is I love the idea of being able to tinker and get to a super stable, lovable mobile Linux setup, but I just don't have time right now. Maybe someday. :)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by tsuraan on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:56AM (#21248284)
It's not much tinkering at all. Once you've installed powertop (probably just "dnf install powertop" or "apt install powertop", or whatever your favorite flavour is), you can just run "sudo powertop --auto-tune"[0]. If you do like to tinker, you could maybe write your own init script to run that on boot, but your distro probably included one already.

0 - https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by computerex on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:44AM (#21248158)
I think with tlp/powertop you can leave settings to their (good) default values. It's just a matter of installing these tools.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by xtracto on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:37AM (#21249445)
As with the other comment saying "have you used X/Y command" it is funny, given the original article.

Someone should setup a list of all these "tricks" and non-standard "patches" that people have to use in Linux after installing it so that it works decently.

Nowadays my desktop PC is a Linux (Mint) one. I like it, and I use it for several things, including gaming. But I don't kid me, the usability is utter crap, and coming from a 25 year yourny with Linux, it is still playing catchup with regards to hardware control (audio, bluetooth, wifi, etc).

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by computerex on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:59PM (#21251553)
Why do you think the usability is crap? Can you be more specific? I haven't had any issues with audio/bluetooth/wifi and many many people at my workplace use linux for development and I haven't heard about audio/wifi related issues since maybe 10 years ago.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by xtracto on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @09:41AM (#21270199)
Sure:

- bluetooth headphones refuse to connect half of the time (they work 100% on my phone and on windows on same hardware)

- audio: sometimes sound just refuses to play.. have to restart graphical session.

- upgrade: after upgrading mint to latest version, restarting got stuck in the terminal: it was missing some package. Had to manually pat install it.

- Android studio/mobile: have to fight for the OS to recognize connected mobile for adb.

- Game: CS:GO sometimes sound is either choppy or "fixing" it in game settings makes it leggy. Same game in steam as well works fine in windows in same hardware.

And the list of thousand paper cuts could go on.

Don't get me wrong, I still use Mint as my main OS in that computer. I have always been a Linux/BSD enthusiast. When I was in my 20s I enjoyed a lot tinkering with it, to make X11R6 work, then winmodems, then sound cards (with alsa), then wifi , etc. But nowadays at 37, I care less and less about dealing with that kind of thing.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by feanaro on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:50PM (#21265426)
Yeah, I don't get it. I set it up for a lot of my family, including grandpas and whatnot, taught them how to upgrade packages and basically forgot about it. With Windows that was never possible.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by fragmede on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:16PM (#21251163)
What Linux has gotten right (on my hardware), is wake from suspend. That laptop never has problems with that. What's frustrating, is my work MBP laptop, can't seem to reliably wake from sleep (inc using my external monitor).