News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by mehhh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @11:15AM (#21215432)
There are a number of interesting use cases for PWAs, but part of Apple's fear is (potentially) many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely.

Apple also loses all code auditing and screening, meaning they can't ban GPL licensed PWAs like they ban alternative Linphone builds (as they are GPLv2), Signal Private Messenger builds (GPLv3) and only the official developer can build and submit these apps to the app store.

Apple's GPL ban also effiectively mandates these apps having broad CLAs to ensure they can relicense the code for use in the Apple App Store.

Edit: removed bonus apostrophe

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by frenchyatwork on Thursday October 10, 2019 @11:33AM (#21215691)
> many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely

This was also the music industy's fear of digital data about 20-30 years ago.

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by mehhh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @11:43AM (#21215830)
The business model is outdated, Safari purposefully being a laggard with no alternatives on iOS will eventually bite Apple in the butt, it is just a question of when.

Both the Music industry and Apple seek to maintain their control and thus their cash cows, but whether that will continue to work out for Apple remains to be seen...

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by riffraff on Thursday October 10, 2019 @12:59PM (#21216781)
> The business model is outdated

And what is it's replacement? It seems in app purchases are what keeps up a large part of mobile apps.

iTunes changed the music business, but I have not noticed a similar change for mobile apps, web or not.

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by mehhh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @01:03PM (#21216836)
SaaS and Entertainment as a service are the replacements, hence Apple Music and their new streaming service. This is also why AT&T, Verizon, Sinclair and Comcast have spent the last half decade buying media companies.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by thenewnewguy on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:27AM (#21230877)
Why does there need to be a replacement? Apple already sells the hardware and their software (iOS and the preinstalled apps) and makes money off of that.

If I make my app available via my website as a PWA, and all the hosting costs are my own, and don't use any of the app store's services, why does Apple deserve a share of the in app (in PWA?) purchases?

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by nicky0 on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:53AM (#21247686)
Apple hasn't banned GPL apps. It would be more accurate to say GPL bans Apple.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by curt15 on Thursday October 10, 2019 @11:54AM (#21215959)
What interest would Apple have in banning GPL-licensed web apps?
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by teddyh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @02:25PM (#21217642)
More details here:

http://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl-purge/

[…]

Anyway, the message is pretty obvious: Apple won’t ship anything that’s licensed under GPL v3 on OS X. Now, why is that?

There are two big changes in GPL v3. The first is that it explicitly prohibits patent lawsuits against people for actually using the GPL-licensed software you ship. The second is that it carefully prevents TiVoization, locking down hardware so that people can’t actually run the software they want.

So, which of those things are they planning for OS X, eh?

I’m also intrigued to see how far they are prepared to go with this. They already annoyed and inconvenienced a lot of people with the Samba and GCC removal. Having wooed so many developers to the Mac in the last decade, are they really prepared to throw away all that goodwill by shipping obsolete tools and making it a pain in the ass to upgrade them?

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by dwaite on Thursday October 10, 2019 @06:39PM (#21219904)
The GPL v3 prevents things like the Novell/Microsoft deal to "patent license" Linux.

The consequence is that Apple can't merely settle to solve patent disputes for any included GPLv3 component, but has to find a way to have the upstream component (and all deviations) have free use of the patent.

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by saagarjha on Thursday October 10, 2019 @04:54PM (#21219061)
This for stuff that ships with their OS, mostly.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by mehhh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @11:58AM (#21216006)
Of that I am not certain, but Apple has banned VLC and many other apps, and continues to ban any GPL code from the app store: https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by torpidor on Thursday October 10, 2019 @01:53PM (#21217387)
VLC was removed because a VLC developer (copyrightholder) asked them to. Specifically, they alleged apple did not have the rights to distribute VLC unless they also allowed users to modify / recompile the software.

There is a way for end users to modify their software now, but I don’t know if it would satisfy that developer. VLC relicensed to make clear they don’t require distributors to do this.

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by irrational on Thursday October 10, 2019 @12:12PM (#21216201)
I've used VLC on Apple products (phone, tablet, laptop) for years. I can't remember a time it wasn't available. Do you mean some VLC other than the video/media playing application?
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by mehhh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @01:00PM (#21216795)
VLC had to relicense to LGPL to make that happen: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player#History
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by rrix2 on Thursday October 10, 2019 @01:00PM (#21216794)
They do that to "protect" their DRM and application support libraries from GPL virality which wouldn't be a problem with PWAs
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by api on Thursday October 10, 2019 @02:26PM (#21217646)
GPL virality does not apply backward from app to platform. There are loads of GPL apps on Windows and on Mac outside the app store.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by teddyh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @02:24PM (#21217633)
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by saagarjha on Thursday October 10, 2019 @04:53PM (#21219054)
I’ve been looking at the App Store Guidelines recently and I don’t see much in them that seems to block GPL specifically. Maybe it’s OK now?
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by mehhh on Thursday October 10, 2019 @05:20PM (#21219298)
If you have citations of GPLv2 or GPLv3 apps that are in the App Store, I would be highly interested.

As far as I can discern, Linphone is provided in the App Store under a proprietary license, VLC had to relicense as LGPL, and GNU Go is still not on the App Store.

Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by dwaite on Thursday October 10, 2019 @06:36PM (#21219880)
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by mehhh on Friday October 11, 2019 @03:26AM (#21222280)
The App store version is almost certainly using MPLv2, which is a file based copyleft license. Much weaker than GPLv2.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by dwaite on Thursday October 10, 2019 @06:35PM (#21219872)
My understanding is that Apple doesn't ban GPLvX code - that doesn't mean other people won't write Apple and ask the app to be removed, claiming the app developer did not have proper copyright license.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by saagarjha on Thursday October 10, 2019 @06:03PM (#21219647)
I don’t think anyone’s tried it, because it was certainly not allowed a couple of years ago. But the language that the FSF used to point to is no longer there, so I’d like to hope that it might be possible today.
Re:Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store by colejohnson66 on Friday October 11, 2019 @01:01PM (#21226216)
It’s not so much that it’s banned; it’s that because the GPLv3 allows users to modify their software and Apple doesn’t without their developer licenses, you can’t give the user all the freedoms the license provides.