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Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:30PM (#21161622)
Live higher-stakes but non-professional players have major tells. They're good enough to play good hands and know the odds, but not good enough to bluff, make hero calls or folds.

I used to play 10/20 and 25/50 PLO, and while the game is different, the pattern described is pretty typical. Big multiway pots and speculative hands are the rule, so if a draw completes and there's 4 players in the hand, someone has it.

This doesn't sound like cheating, just a typical higher stakes game but on TV.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by umeet on Friday October 04, 2019 @08:18PM (#21162997)
This is one of the worst comments I have seen on HN. I don't think you actually checked any evidence before commenting.

I have played poker professionally for more than 10 years and I am 100% sure he was cheating.

It's not that he is playing well and making good reads. Actually often he plays like shit but happens to make some correct decisions postflop. Decicions that in long run would be really bad but in those cases were perfect. One nice example is where he went allin preflop with 45o against two players who both had AK.

Please check some of the streams and come back here to comment. You can start from Doug Polk videos. If you don't see that he is cheating then you are not a winning player and probably never have been.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Saturday October 05, 2019 @12:22AM (#21163791)
I haven't checked out any of those vids. Maybe it is obvious cheating, maybe he's a fish on a heater, but until someone has actual proof he's cheated, I'm not about mob justice.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by alasdair_ on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:44PM (#21162157)
Look at this chart of VPIP and BB/100 and tell me that it doesn't look like cheating: https://i.imgur.com/66i3Tii.jpg

In addition, his abilities magically go away on the days that his friend on the technology team is absent.

Also, he only ever plays when the cards are marked with RFID tags. He NEVER plays when they are unmarked, even against the same people that he supposedly has an edge against.

He is absolutely a cheat.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by bonestamp2 on Friday October 04, 2019 @09:23PM (#21163239)
> his abilities magically go away on the days that his friend on the technology team is absent

Who is his friend?

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Saturday October 05, 2019 @12:21AM (#21163784)
Someone that no one has actually proven exists yet...
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by hornd on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:39PM (#21161704)
900BB/100 is absolutely not typical for any high stakes game I've ever seen. It's unrealistic.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:43PM (#21161713)
And I've run up $1k to $5k in an hour... I've seen players turn $5k into $100k at an even higher stakes game over a few hours.

I'd rather see some evidence of wrongdoing, you can't prove he's cheating simply because he's on a heater...

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by MFLoon on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:05PM (#21161885)
lol it's not just a sick 1 session heater running up 10 or 20 buyins... he's running +900bb/100 over 70 or so sessions.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:09PM (#21161921)
Against non-pros at a cash game broadcast on the internet. Odds are half the people he's playing against are out of their comfort zone, playing higher stakes than they should just to be on a stream.

Not to mention there's no buy-in limit on these stakes, BB/100 means nothing if they're playing above the expected stakes (happens often if the biggest stakes are relatively low).

Again, none of what you're saying is actually proof.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by MFLoon on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:17PM (#21161995)
There are plenty of other pros who have played on Stones Live, who Postle has repeatedly gotten the better of.

Even if the average hands are playing 2x or 4x above nominal stakes, that's still an outrageously high, many std-dev above elite, win rate.

Yea, it's hard to prove things generally, but I don't really feel like the standard of "proof" matters here. I'm 99.99999...% sure the guy is cheating. I'm not saying put him in jail because of it, but definitely raise the alarm and don't play with him. Would you play with him on the Stone RFID table?

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:26PM (#21162053)
I've played tons of games against whales so yes, I'd play in his games. That being said, often it's +EV to simply stay out of pots with pros and merely prey on the other players.

Admittedly I haven't seen a ton of his hands, but just watched a few, it's not that unusual. One used as 'proof' of cheating where he plays low connectors and hits a pair with a draw to a straight, then he bluffs off a passive player with an over-pair. If he actually had the info wouldn't he fold? Dunno, seems to me he's just a pro preying on fish. His play is pretty standard for good cash players. It's his opponents that seem unusually bad, but whom observers are overrating.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by MFLoon on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:39PM (#21162136)
Watch some more; here are some damning highlights:

- Bluffs river with 9 high, gets check raised by 6 high, 3bet jams for barely a min raise, it gets through obviously

- Check folds TPTK on the flop on a dry board when other player has a set

- Check folds top pair and a gutshot when other player has nut straight

- And here are some more https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/10/10-suspicious-mike-po...

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Saturday October 05, 2019 @01:59PM (#21166942)
None of these were super convincing. I did however eventually get around to watching a bunch of Joe Ingram's content and a stream last night, now I'm more convinced. One hand that had me convinced more than any here was a board that was 899T and forgot the fourth card (inconsequential). Anyhow, Postle has 8s full and on the river, instead of check-raising leading with a feeler bet, or any other kind of action you'd expect when you have 3rd nuts but a monster, he simply check folds. No way any normally aggro player actually check folds a boat in a cash game.

Also, Postle's mannerisms and interviews are the most damning IMO. He's arrogant, cocky and can't explain any of his lines, not to mention has said some questionable things that actually suggest cheating.

Reading this thread at first I thought maybe he was a Victor Blom kind of character; loose aggro playing against passive amateurs (shoving 54 would give that impression). But no, he's a fucking moron who basically is giving himself away by folding monster hands or playing weak hands strongly post-flop then needling opponents and bragging about it in interviews.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by indigodaddy on Saturday October 05, 2019 @03:25PM (#21167407)
Glad you watched the content and came back to reply. And if you watch the non-god mode sessions (most of 2018), you will see a completely different type of player, and all of the physical tells (touching the hat and gazing down at crotch while pretending to look at cards) and cheating indications are no longer present, and he never gets into the type of hand situations and/or crazy moves and perfect-for-all-the-hands decisions he was making in God mode.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by MFLoon on Saturday October 05, 2019 @06:37PM (#21168438)
I feel like my examples are just as convincing as the boat over boat: they're all theoretically unsound lines that no winning player would take unless they had x-ray vision, and if you claim you would x/f TPTK on the flop because of your sick live reads I'd like to play with you. But whatever, glad you saw the light I guess.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by newfangle on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:16PM (#21161987)
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:24PM (#21162036)
Great comeback. Have you ever played at these stakes, live, or do you just play NL50 online and watch Twitch streamers?
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by newfangle on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:53PM (#21162220)
Yes I play 10/20 live multiple times a week. Explain to me how a winning reg would ever consider calling a 5 bet all in with 54o and then fold KK pre to a 4 bet?
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @06:23PM (#21162418)
Calling an all in with 54, what are the stack sizes? How many players? 54 has better hand equity 3 or 4 ways than heads up.

As for KK, what's the hand history like? Again, heads up or multiway? Might have a read? What are the bet sizes and stack sizes?

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by newfangle on Friday October 04, 2019 @06:44PM (#21162511)
Clearly you have not done your due diligence if you dont even know the most famous hand. It was a 3 way all in and he called with 54o and both players happened to have AK

Im not wasting any more time talking to you and i stand by my previous statement that you dont know what you are talking about.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @07:13PM (#21162694)
Yes, calling 54o 3 way is loose but not crazy. Maybe I've just played too much PLO over the years.

Also, Fedor Holz once won a major tournament shoving a similar hand a few years back.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by umeet on Friday October 04, 2019 @09:54PM (#21163343)
Calling allin 54o 3way is loose, crazy and extremely losing play in the long run. You have no idea what you are talking about. Some tournament shove has nothing to do with this.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by querulous on Friday October 04, 2019 @08:27PM (#21163033)
he regularly makes this play tho. it's not like he has three lucky hands. he has 3000 of them
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by reascenda on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:34PM (#21161659)
Check out the Doug Polk or Joe Ingram videos. It's 100% cheating in this case.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by Mikeb85 on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:16PM (#21161979)
Unless they have actual proof I'm going to have to side with the supposed cheater, until it's actually proven he cheated.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by reascenda on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:47PM (#21162187)
My dude over an 8k sample of hands he's winning at approximately 100x the rate of the best players, while deviating colossally from optimal strategies. The probability of winning at the rate he does is beyond the one to the number of atoms in the universe level.

This is as egregious a case of cheating as you're ever likely to find.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by SamReidHughes on Friday October 04, 2019 @06:53PM (#21162561)
I think that by itself is a weak argument, because let’s say he was superbly good at reading people. That could explain a huge win rate. But there is a ton of other evidence. And a people-reader wouldn’t have his eyes in his lap.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by newfangle on Friday October 04, 2019 @08:20PM (#21163002)
Nobody actually reads people in poker. What the actually do is categorize different players into different player types based om hiw they play and then they exploit their suboptimal strategy. Sometimes someone flinches or looks nervous but generally that actually means they have a really good hand not a bad one.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by abductee_hg on Saturday October 05, 2019 @10:21AM (#21165646)
I agree with Mike, until there is evidence, we have to use the Presumption of innocence. There might be rational explanations for his high success rate. Savants exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome Let's not forget that this Guy is just doing the improbable, not the impossible, so...
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by paggle on Friday October 04, 2019 @06:59PM (#21162595)
Usain Bolt deviated colossally from optimal sprinting structure/style and beat the world record by a crazy number of standard deviations. And that actually happened. So these things are not just false because they're improbable.
Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by reascenda on Friday October 04, 2019 @07:12PM (#21162687)
Poker is semi solved, not like chess is of course but to the point where good bots always beat good humans over a large enough sample.

There are objectively better and worse ways to play poker if you make some assumptions about the behaviour of the other players. In a small sample those assumptions may be false, but in a large enough sample it's extremely unlikely to be the case.

So it's extremely surprising to see a winning player employing crazily non optimal strategies (like betting 54o AI pre flop in a three way pot). That is just a losing play in the absence of information about the other players holdings.

The idea that he's reading people is absurd, even independently of the evidence of him not actually looking at people while betting. Live reads (to the extent they help at all) are incorporated in the win rates of the best players already.

Re:A Cheating Scandal Rocking the Poker World by jimktrains2 on Saturday October 05, 2019 @09:49AM (#21165466)
Bolt's record, while impressive, is by no means unexpected or "crazy". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_100_metres_world_recor...