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Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by pwg on Friday October 04, 2019 @03:14PM (#21160926)
> Commercial enterprise VPN products are an open sewer,

Commercial enterprise VPN products exist for one reason:

To allow the enterprise security office to tick off the checkbox on the quarterly compliance forms that essentially says: "using a VPN to provide secure communications".

Security is only a secondary consideration, if it is even considered at all.

Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by chelmzy on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:08PM (#21161912)
From my experience corporate VPNs exist to allow employees to access internal resources remotely. They aren't typically used for security although they can provide some form of security for remote workers.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by lwf on Friday October 04, 2019 @08:04PM (#21162935)
Of course they're used for security -- VPNs are a hassle for users and admins, it'd be easier for everyone (except security!) if all internal apps were just public on the internet.

VPNs are a band-aid / work-around for "we don't have strong authentication and authorization on all services". That's fine, not everyone can do the latter, and they can provide some safety v.s. the anonymous attacker case. But too often they lure IT environments into a false sense of security.

Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by kirbypineapple on Friday October 04, 2019 @08:21PM (#21163005)
You're ignoring the reality that most enterprise software is a tire fire (from a security standpoint) and that it's not feasible to secure hundreds (or even dozens!) of enterprise apps.

VPN's are the enabler that ensures status quo remains.

Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by lwf on Saturday October 05, 2019 @05:35PM (#21168123)
I agree — band-aids aren't per-se a bad thing. However, a VPN isn't the ideal end state. Even if you can't modify the underlying application, the goal should be "wrap in a reverse-proxy that handles authn / some-amount-of-authz so you can minimise the risk".

VPNs handle network security, but don't protect you against an attacker able to compromise an endpoint in your corporate environment.

Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by stjohnswarts on Friday October 04, 2019 @10:58PM (#21163565)
Can you propose an alternative solution?
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by morpheuskafka on Friday October 04, 2019 @09:42PM (#21163298)
Some protocols/services are designed with a local network in mind and would require modifications to work on the internet. A VPN is invisible to the apps and can easily save a lot of work in a large IT environment with numerous internal services.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by fulafel on Saturday October 05, 2019 @06:48AM (#21164835)
You're probably alluding to things like PXE or mDNS, or some proprietary industrial control protocols? This is true but deploying a VPN to cover them is a pretty high price to pay in operational complexity and security cost. There's usually other ways to address the task at hand.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by generatorguy on Friday October 04, 2019 @10:28PM (#21163470)
How is a local network different from the internet, presuming there is no firewall or nat between the client and the server ?
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by cwyers on Saturday October 05, 2019 @12:00AM (#21163726)
On a local network, you make the assumption that there are only authorized users.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by bayindirh on Saturday October 05, 2019 @03:31AM (#21164251)
Uh oh, that assumption is a big no no.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by gsich on Saturday October 05, 2019 @06:41AM (#21164818)
depends
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by bayindirh on Saturday October 05, 2019 @06:44AM (#21164825)
Can you elaborate? Honestly asking.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by labawi on Sunday October 06, 2019 @03:01AM (#21170316)
I wouldn't recommend it with PCs, notebooks, phones, random crapware, but:

When you control¹ all the devices on the network, the network is small enough and the danger from the non-authenticated protocols isn't too high, then I would say it is reasonable to assume being present in the network is sufficient authentication. Not saying it could not be improved, but there are probably many more pressing concerns.

¹ you don't fully control anything anymore, but you're not going to fix that either.

Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by generatorguy on Sunday October 06, 2019 @01:15PM (#21173337)
The air gapped power plant networks I work on have unused Ethernet ports shut off and the ones in use only accept traffic from the MAC address of the device that is meant to be there. So you can’t just show up and plug in.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by bayindirh on Sunday October 06, 2019 @04:21AM (#21170576)
Thanks a lot. That gave some perspective. I'll keep that in mind.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by antonvs on Saturday October 05, 2019 @01:01AM (#21163902)
> presuming there is no firewall or nat between the client and the server

That's one of the issues though. If you can't access a machine via its internal IP, many useful usage patterns break.

Someone complained that the issue is that services aren't secure, but there's more to it than that: good security depends on defense in depth, and firewalls are an important part of that.

Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by fulafel on Saturday October 05, 2019 @01:54AM (#21164041)
Yep, using VPNs makes the organisation lazy in security. But insecure apps in a "company internal network" is still not ok IMO. In the exceptional cases that you can't fix, the way to go is separate dedicated environments for the risky apps, and disconnected from central services.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by mc32 on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:44PM (#21161727)
Honestly, isn’t 90% of compliance like that? Checking boxes...
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by emn13 on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:21PM (#21162021)
The thing is, people are very good at checking boxes, and not very good at remembering important things.

So while it may seem inane, plain old checking boxes is almost certainly part of a good strategy for dealing with tedious, repetitive tasks where one error can cause serious issues - and this kind of security is probably one of those.

Obviously, it's not enough, nor an excuse to turn off your brain - but it's a pretty proven behavioral pattern.

Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by mc32 on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:38PM (#21162131)
Sure I mean it’s a lot of CYA regulation-wise. Because if you chose a solution which is arguably better but not part of the list and the one on the list which is a worse solution isn’t checked, well you’d better have your resume ready when something happens.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by ohashi on Friday October 04, 2019 @09:56PM (#21163346)
Flying is a great example of 'checking boxes' saving lives.
Re:Vulnerabilities exploited in VPN products used worldwide by paulddraper on Friday October 04, 2019 @06:33PM (#21162464)
Having worked a lot with security compliance, I'll say there are two types of things you do:

1. The things for compliance.

2. The things for security.

Only rarely does something fit in both categories.