If they were a brick and mortar business operating in all these regions, fine, costs vary and it makes sense that salaries would too. But they are just using the excuse of locale to grow their margins, simple as that. It’s their business, and employees can work wherever they want. But let’s not pretend they are doing anyone any favors with that policy.
- What company? - What role? - What's your comp range indexed to? - VC Backed?
https://careers.hotjar.com/o/customer-support-americas - this role is $45,000 to $62,000 (looking for EST, would be hired as a contractor)
https://about.gitlab.com/job-families/engineering/dotcom-sup...
For intermediate (of which you can go to senior) and you'd be an employee of GitLab in the US, so no dealing with self-employment tax etc)
- Florida $46,740 - $57,126 - Raleigh $54,940 - $67,148 - NYC $63,140 - $77,172
Very comparable except in NYC which is a higher cost of living. I'd love more data. I know Basecamp is doing the "everyone indexed to Chicago" which means that most regions are getting a little bit more purchasing power.
I would be quite let down with the pay range you have mentioned.
Gitlab doesn't have these constraints. They could pay the same, they just don't want to.
On the contrary, as a participant in global economics it has a responsibility to pay its workers fairly. No one is asking them to "fix" the economy, just to not perpetuate unfair hiring and salary practices like regional salary limits.
The work you do is worth it to GitLab or it's not. The value of the work doesn't change whether it's done in Nebraska or New York or Amsterdam.
Here's Glassdoor info about Google. I chose the following cities because Glassdoor said they had "high confidence". Consider it anecdotal:
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Sa...
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-To...
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Ba...
- Glassdoor San Francisco SWE - "AVG Base - $129,065"
- GitLab Average at Intermediate: $160,000
- Glassdoor Bangalore Google SWE - ₹1,691,257 current exchange == $23,785.84
- GitLab Average at Intermediate: ₹3,406,961
- Glassdoor Toronto SWE Google - $119,055 CAD current exchange == $89,925.81
- GitLab Average at Intermediate: $114,075 CAD
(This doesn't account "perks" and RSUs and such which I assume Google's are larger, so Google comp can probably be 20-40% higher. Consider doing a search of your own with $company of your choice to compare.)
----
Do I want to live in a world where everyone gets paid the exact same for the same work, and everything costs the same everywhere because we have perfectly efficient markets, absolutely.
Do I think companies are dumb for making competitive wages for local markets? Not at all. We live the majority of our life in a local market.
Can workers find companies that are "outliers" that will pay them the same for their work no matter where they are? Yep.
Do I think that due to globalization and a remote work force over time we will have more evenly distributed salary. Yep.
All I want is for you (and others) to bring the same vigor for salary to any tech company thread as people do to GitLab's. We are a tech company that built our compensation model like many other tech companies (and other global companies). We also allow you to work where you live and want to pay a wage that is respectable in that region. Just like Google.
The next time a thread comes up for any company on HN, I want anyone reading's first thought to be: "I wonder if they pay people the same in different cities?" Let's talk about it more than just in GitLab threads, and we can start that acceleration towards perfect salary around the world.
Edit: I think it goes without saying, but I wanna be abundantly clear, these thoughts are my own, and I'm a longstanding member of this community first, and an employee of GitLab second. No one asked me to go on this rant this AM, I was just tired.
SF is very expensive. Where I live, my salary provides an extremely comfortable standard of living (I'm in the top 5% income bracket overall here). If I made the same amount in SF, I'd be hard-pressed to afford a small apartment.
The NYC rate is justified if they work you harder or if your job requires face-to-face interactions in NYC.
Imagine someone making the argument it is OK to pay less for X class of people, because we can get away with it. X being some historically marginalized, but now protected class. And they should be grateful because some other place pays even less!
It would be really nice if remote discriminating companies could not be called equal opportunity employer at the very least.
https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ca/sa...
(Note that is ~700 sq feet, not meters)
But, you also make literally twice as much money, so it easily offsets the extra rent.
For people who need space, just forget it. House prices are roughly 10x higher than in the ordinary small cities, ignoring the difference in land area. Families need the space.
I know a former San Francisco resident, now in Florida, with enough space to raise sheep and shoot an AR-15 in his yard. He's not rich. He earns a salary as a good software developer, and he decided to buy that kind of space. It's 11 acres if I remember right. He couldn't have that in San Francisco, even earning literally twice as much money.
https://elsajohansson.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/what-does-a-w...
I have coworkers in Nebraska. They make a different amount than I. They also have and own a house on that salary. Do they move? No, they like it in Nebraska.
It is not GitLab's job as a large remote company to "fix" global economics.
GitLab is a "small multinational". If you look at other multinationals (or even large nationals) like Google Microsoft, GE, Comcast, etc, I'm 100% positive you'll find that they don't pay the same in different cities.
It's no different. One step at a time. GitLab is offering remote. In 10 years, if local economies level out more due to globalization, this can be less of an issue.
Until then, I'll just keep reading this argument on HN...