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Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by TurboHaskal on Saturday September 28, 2019 @04:27PM (#21102661)
I can understand such disdain. I am a software engineer currently working in a DevOps team (yes, team, you’ve heard it right). I’d say that 90% of DevOps engineers I’ve met don’t even know what a linked list is, and they themselves talk with disdain about developers.

So much for DevOps philosophy.

Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by eropple on Sunday September 29, 2019 @02:00AM (#21105392)
I’m a developer who runs an infrastructure team. Have for years. And most developers I know don’t know why you’d log in JSON unless I was the one to explain it to them (patiently, while remembering the times they acted frustrated at my guys for not doing all the magic and just some).

So much for DevOps philosophy, indeed.

Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by Aeolun on Sunday September 29, 2019 @12:17AM (#21105043)
I wouldn’t mind so much if they at least knew what terraform was.
Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by goatinaboat on Sunday September 29, 2019 @03:28AM (#21105652)
if they at least knew what terraform was

Any real, experienced DevOps engineer will reply “a steaming pile of shit”.

Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by watermelon0 on Sunday September 29, 2019 @09:11AM (#21106835)
Sure, it's got its problems, but please show me a better alternative.
Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by goatinaboat on Sunday September 29, 2019 @09:45AM (#21106981)
On AWS, Boto. On Azure, DSC (Powershell) and ARM templates.

You will need to maintain separate TF codebases for each one anyway, but with the native solutions you get easy access to all features of the platform and don't have to spend most of your time jumping through stupid hoops to try and pretend that one tool can do everything.

No-one would write code worrying if it was valid in both Java and C# but that is the same level as what TF claims to do. It's complete shit, ditch it and you will be 10x happier, I guarantee it.

Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by Aeolun on Sunday September 29, 2019 @09:13PM (#21110911)
Sounds to me like using a single tool instead of a bunch of separate ones with different functionality is a win to me, but we are each entitled to our opinions.

Boto doesn’t seem comparable to terraform at all, unless you enjoy building state management yourself.

Terraform has been better than anything else I’ve tried so far.

Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by root_axis on Sunday September 29, 2019 @12:31AM (#21105094)
They are worthy of disdain because they never took a CS class?
Re:A developer goes to a DevOps conference by TurboHaskal on Sunday September 29, 2019 @04:02AM (#21105788)
No one is worthy of disdain due to unfamiliarity. I have explained why a software engineer that cares about the infrastructure might feel disdain after reading about and agreeing to the DevOps philosophy and switches to a DevOps role only to find out that the vast majority of new teammates lack comprehension of the most basic software engineering principles and don’t find value in them. It is incredibly frustrating.

Now, it is also true that most developers are just content with clicking around in their Jetbrains IDE without bothering about resources or even knowing what a file descriptor or system call is. Those so called senior Java engineers that I had to explain the basics of garbage collection to them. Those also make operations harder than it should be.

But that’s another story. We’re taking about the dissonance between what gets advertised as DevOps and what truly is, which seems to be the norm in our industry and is leaving a significantly amount of people unhappy and dissatisfied.