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Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by thecleaner on Friday September 27, 2019 @06:15PM (#21096737)
A large part of this vision fund is basically Saudi oil money. These folks realize that oil doesn't have that much future if you think in terms of hundreds of years, so they are looking to diversify. Vision fund is not a tool to be on the cutting edge, its just a means to not be left behind. Hence they let VC market decide which horse is worth backing and then they swing their dollars around to see what happens.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by ajmurmann on Friday September 27, 2019 @10:35PM (#21098034)
That’s another thing I never got about Saudi’s investments. To me the obvious strategy with all the money would have been to not invest in empty skyscrapers or foreign investments, but pick two or three areas in which you massively bolster research and investment in an area like solar energy. Investment would be local and you try to attract all to talent in the field for both fundamental research as well as to fund companies. Investing in the Vision Fund might safe the cash, but does little for the economic future of UAE.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by throw313123 on Saturday September 28, 2019 @01:36AM (#21098667)
The Saudis have also done that with KAUST; from what I heard they have turned off all their weird laws in this region of SA (like a SEZ), and were hiring aggressively a few years ago (from the US). I occasionally stumble on some interesting projects from this University, but I for one would be very weary of moving to a desert region where women were disallowed from driving until a few years back, and need to be draped from head to toe in black.

To be fair, there is something more in the picture. UAE for instance is much more cosmopolitan, but has failed to be a research hub, in contrast to rich city states like Singapore. Iran, their neighbour, produces some very smart people however - who then inevitably move out, considering the flavour regime in that country.

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by smcl on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:34AM (#21099390)
Hate to be that guy but I see it so often on HN that I think it’s worth correcting.

You’re wary of moving to a desert special economic zone if you are unsure or suspicious of it

You’re weary of it if you have moved to many such zones already and you are a bit sick of it

[dead]
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by philwelch on Saturday September 28, 2019 @06:48AM (#21099646)
Hong Kong and Monaco?
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by mruts on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:18AM (#21100127)
Also Vatican City.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by philwelch on Saturday September 28, 2019 @02:16PM (#21101930)
I was sticking to the ones known for being wealthy, otherwise I would have mentioned San Marino and Liechtenstein.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by mruts on Saturday September 28, 2019 @07:38PM (#21103845)
I think Vatican City qualifies as being wealthy af.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by pdub123 on Monday September 30, 2019 @02:13PM (#21118113)
The context is "but has failed to be a research hub, in contrast to rich city states like Singapore."

Are these city states research hubs? Hong Kong or Liechtenstein perhaps.

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by mruts on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @08:22PM (#21132311)
I mean, Vatican City is probably the oldest research hub in current existence.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by smnrchrds on Saturday September 28, 2019 @12:15AM (#21098401)
Minor nitpick, but UAE (United Arab Emirates) is not the same as Saudi Arabia. It is a neighbouring country.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by robin_reala on Saturday September 28, 2019 @06:02AM (#21099483)
Not really a minor nitpick.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by smegger001 on Saturday September 28, 2019 @01:10AM (#21098576)
Thats because the Saudi wealth fund, is not for Saudi Arabia but House Saud.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by lazyjones on Friday September 27, 2019 @10:49PM (#21098089)
Norway did the same thing, it has worked very well for their economy so far.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by olivermarks on Friday September 27, 2019 @11:22PM (#21098201)
Norway's sovereign wealth fund is vastly larger than the Saudi Arabian one, SA don't have much room to maneuver if the Aramco ipo doesn't work and these investments fail
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by lazyjones on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:01AM (#21099294)
> vastly larger than the Saudi Arabian one

By one order of magnitude these days, the Norwegian fund's market value was less than $100b in 2004 though.

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by RomanBob on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:45AM (#21099432)
Saudis do not want smart people being middle class in their country. That would ruin their theocratic state.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by notduncansmith on Saturday September 28, 2019 @04:50AM (#21099250)
When you have so much money to play with, there is just no one basket to put even most of your eggs in. Yes, they have put many into Vision Fund, but many other arenas (especially political ones) demand funding and will not go unfed by mama bird and her oil money.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by puranjay on Saturday September 28, 2019 @03:54AM (#21099061)
Saudi Arabia has a problem in that its far larger than UAE and it is also the home of Islam. Loosening cultural restrictions might fly in Dubai, but I'm not sure the Muslim world would be as okay with the same happening in the country that hosts their most sacred site.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by nradov on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:50AM (#21105360)
Why not? Most of the Muslim world is far less restrictive than Saudi Arabia. And even if they don't like some future loosened restriction there's nothing they can do about it.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by codyb on Friday September 27, 2019 @06:54PM (#21097012)
I guess it’s just a different vision then. Theirs is the vision of a Saudi ruling family with enough capital to survive the collapse of demand for oil over time.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by hef19898 on Saturday September 28, 2019 @07:12AM (#21099713)
And by following VCs they gave VC backed start-ups a nice alternative to cash out in case IPOs don't look promising enough. I could imagine some VCs are considering that already.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by chewz on Saturday September 28, 2019 @02:46AM (#21098860)
This should be an obvious warning sign.

Someone whose core business is losing money is trying to recoup them in an area that they have no clue about.

This is a typical guy who feels pressure so he buys at the top and puts his money based on recommendation of others in a business that is going to be next big thing. A typical sucker in other words who will end up penniless.

Poor Saudis.

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by goatinaboat on Saturday September 28, 2019 @03:18AM (#21098954)
Poor Saudis.

They should invest in nanotechnology, and make the world’s smallest violin.

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by usecontainers on Saturday September 28, 2019 @08:30AM (#21099972)
>> Someone whose core business is losing money

What, oil? Go look up the average barrel cost for Saudi oil (hint: it's less than 2 lattes). Demand needs to drop to essentially zero before renewables are competitive with their oil. They are not losing money.

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by jakoblorz on Saturday September 28, 2019 @03:56AM (#21099070)
> This is a typical guy who feels pressure so he buys at the top and puts his money based on recommendation of others in a business that is going to be next big thing

Well that is how the current VC market works - sadly

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by pmiller2 on Friday September 27, 2019 @08:43PM (#21097571)
Hundreds of years? There’s a reasonable probability _human civilization_ doesn’t have hundreds of years on this planet.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by ekianjo on Friday September 27, 2019 @11:49PM (#21098304)
There is always a non zero probability of mankind extinction but within hundreds of years it should be fairly, fairly low
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by adrianN on Saturday September 28, 2019 @01:19AM (#21098613)
Human civilization can die much easier than mankind. Civilizations have collapsed multiple times before. Back then the effects were localized because civilizations were localized. In today's globalized world the effects could be much more serious.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by ekianjo on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:52AM (#21100268)
> Civilizations have collapsed multiple times before

Yeah but it's not like the variables at work before are the same at work today. With the current set of variables, even LESS likely than ever than what you call the "current civilization" would collapse completely, because it's massively decentralized in terms of knowledge.

Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by adrianN on Saturday September 28, 2019 @11:49AM (#21101018)
That is of course true, but I think that the number of variables is so huge that nobody really knows why civilizations collapse. For example, while as you say knowledge is more distributed today, a lot fewer people know how to life self-sufficiently and knowledge is a lot more specialized that it used to be the cause. Proverbially nobody knows how to make a pencil from scratch.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by james_s_tayler on Friday September 27, 2019 @09:41PM (#21097811)
I've noticed that assumption is heavily baked in everywhere you look. I'll bet after the hundreds of thousands of years we have made it so far, humanity, in one form or another, will continue to persist.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by pmiller2 on Friday September 27, 2019 @10:05PM (#21097906)
I didn’t say “humanity.” I said “human civilization.” I do think there’s hope for humanity, but I’m a lot more bearish about civilization.
Re:Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy by nine_k on Saturday September 28, 2019 @12:32AM (#21098455)
If human civilization collapses and humans go back to hunter-gatherer subsistence, it means death to about 95-97% of humans.

Not precisely an extinction, but still not a lot of hope.