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Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by tylerl on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:45AM (#21023836)
It makes it extremely difficult to legally be a tech firm unless you're already a tech giant, just like the FDAs procedures make it impossible to invent a new drug unless you're already an established, giant pharma company.

None of the big names in tech will have any trouble at all complying with this; I'd be very surprised if any at all are not already compliant today.

At the same time, the percentage of tech startups that are already compliant with this law is likely around zero, and few will ever become so. Unless this is precisely what your startup is about, small firms, especially with venture funding, can't afford to invest anything at all into privacy beyond the surface. If your startup fails because it gets sued into oblivion, that's no worse (and way less likely) than it failing because nobody actually wanted a chat app for dogs.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by hackerbabz on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:53AM (#21023868)
If a company (small or giant) can't afford to protect my data and preserve my rights to it, then I don't want that company to exist.

Just like I don't want startups making unsafe medicine, or losing my medical secrets.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by alxlaz on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:43AM (#21024131)
> It makes it extremely difficult to legally be a tech firm unless you're already a tech giant

Why? There are plenty of tech companies that collect very little data, and don't sell any of it. I fondly remember one of my customers telling me how much effort it took to come up with a wordy enough privacy policy page for one of their products so that it wouldn't look suspicious. The first draft was barely two paragraphs long and contained just a couple of items, most of them ephemeral (e.g. IP addresses, which were collected only for logging purposes and were only stored for 30 days).

If a company is unable to even articulate what data it collects and cannot do basic operations on it (e.g. remove a piece of it), then it shouldn't be in the business of handling personal information. The same way a clinic that can't even keep track of blood samples shouldn't be in business.

And if a company's earnings depend strictly on being able to collect and sell personal data, what they need is a better business plan, not having everyone turn a blind eye.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by bmistree on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:16AM (#21023984)
I just wanted to piggy-back onto the parent’s comment with a concrete example.

I’ve always been told that it’s good practice to take periodic backups. In the absolute worst cases, you can simply restore directly from these.

If a customer requests that their data are deleted, in addition to my production instance, does that mean that I have to remove their data from my backups? If so, I’m uncertain of the best way to do this. I’m uncertain if many managed services will allow me to mutate backups. And even if I were managing my database and backups directly, it seems painful to load each backed up database, remove the data, and rewrite the backup.

Note: I’m not saying that any of this is impossible. However, it does require a lot of ancillary engineering work difficult for a small company that’s just trying to get to product market fit.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by alxlaz on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:55AM (#21024213)
Not sure about the legal framework in the US but over here across the pond, it's enough if you remove the data when restoring the backups (reasonably easy to do; took me about a day to implement that on an old codebase that I wrote more than ten years ago, and I haven't touched either PHP or that codebase since then...).

IANAL but the guy who told us how it's done was, and in addition to all the legal stuff, of which I have absolutely no recollection because I don't really understand it, he pointed us to this as a useful resource for people who are also not lawyers: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio... .

Turns out it's acceptable for data to remain backed up for a while (as long as you inform your users), as long as you have systems in place that guarantees it's not used anymore.

Just sayin, it's not rocket science. Reading Internet forums you'd think the GDPR was like Apocalypse Lite, but in my experience, it took very little effort to implement it for companies that weren't engaging in shady practices.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by drusepth on Friday September 20, 2019 @07:51AM (#21025596)
>Not sure about the legal framework in the US but over here across the pond, it's enough if you remove the data when restoring the backups

Implementation-wise, is the best approach to do this to store some token for "user XX requested YY data be deleted" and check those tokens whenever you restore a backup?

I feel like that'd run befoul of a true solution because, in the event of a leak, it could be used to tie the information in the backup to the user who requested their data be deleted. Or am I misunderstanding such that that'd actually be acceptable under GDPR?

Is there a better way to do it?

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by alxlaz on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:10PM (#21030159)
That's pretty close to what I did, except I didn't reference the user who requested removal -- it's just a token that says "data will be removed due to GDPR request". I think there's a requirement to log removal requests, so there are still dots that can be connected, though.

Also, I don't know if it's the best technical approach -- I did just because it's code that I wrote a very long time ago, for a friend who was just starting their business. I took care of it because we're still friends and he asked me if I could take a look at it, but it's the first time I've done backend/web development in more than 12 years now.

I think this is sufficient, even considering things like the potential for data breaches. It complies with both the explicit requirements and the general spirit of the GDPR. IANAL and all but I think that, since data leaks aren't a form of data processing by the company who collected the information, they are outside the scope of Art. 17. There are already requirements in place about the secure storage and administration of personal data.

Plus, if you think of it, the framework of this whole construction provides sufficient assurance. If you have live, online backups which can be restored immediately, with a single click, then it's clearly not a problem to erase data from them immediately. If you have offline backups, you're required to have a retention policy for them anyway, and you can't process data from them anyway -- not until they're restored and you've had a chance to purge them. It's certainly possible that someone might break into your storage unit and run away with your archive tapes or hard drives or whatever, but at that point there's a lot of legislation that you have to worry about having broken before you even get to the damn GDPR :).

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by hvidgaard on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:18AM (#21023999)
For GDPR it's sufficient to inform about the backups and when they are expected to be deleted. If you restore them you must have procedures in place to delete the requested data. I don't think this is any different.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by raxxorrax on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:09AM (#21023951)
I doubt this to be true honestly, because having user data worth selling already implies you to have a certain size. The request are reasonable and the dismissal with reference to difficulties startups might face is probably not applicable.

But if that is really a problem, just apply the requirements to companies with a minimum amount of users. Venture capital funded companies don't need to cut corners and shouldn't be allowed to when it comes to privacy.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by Despegar on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:47AM (#21024145)
>just like the FDAs procedures make it impossible to invent a new drug unless you're already an established, giant pharma company.

This is complete nonsense. The biotech industry is very large and vibrant and are most certainly not Big Pharma.

Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by drusepth on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:49AM (#21023853)
This law's implementation is bad for the same reason GDPR's implementation is bad: the people it's meant to target are easily capable of complying (and likely already do) and it's good for "the people" on paper, but disproportionately affects (hurts) small businesses that don't have the means to comply (or even know if they're properly complying to the extent of avoiding a lawsuit).
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by Renaud on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:00AM (#21023899)
Most of these requirements are perfectly reasonable and i don’t see any that are technologically difficult to implement unless you underlying business model relies on selling user data without regards, in which case, good riddance.
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by drusepth on Friday September 20, 2019 @07:59AM (#21025652)
I feel like the "GDPR doesn't affect you unless you sell data" line is the new version of "surveillance doesn't affect you unless you've got something to hide". Every time GDPR is mentioned in a HN thread you see dozens+ of comments asking for clarifications on how to "get around" GDPR issues for legitimate uses. The point is you don't have to be a bad guy to be affected by GDPR and need to spend time+money on not only complying (auditing and implementing systems), but also verifying you're actually compliant with an expert, and the smaller you are the more relative time you have to spend on this work yourself (instead of e.g. hiring lawyers+developers to just do it for you).
Re:Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law by digitalengineer on Friday September 20, 2019 @03:14AM (#21023972)
The GDPR requirements are not that hard to follow. Yes, it takes time to audit your tech stack and website, but small companies can certainly get it to work without paying thousands of dollars. Tools like this one (It was just $49 bucks) help you get started. https://appsumo.com/gdpr-tracker/