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Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by kelnos on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @07:12AM (#20993668)
> One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet.

I don't really see how this is so hard. Don't treat women poorly, in person or online. Don't talk authoritatively about subjects you don't understand, especially when those subjects (like rape and human trafficking) cause people intense pain.

If you really do want to act this way, then you probably should exercise some self-censorship, and rethink your views, perhaps.

> ...in what we can say without facing consequences.

What you say should have consequences. No one should censor you (what you say should be up to you), but you don't live in a vacuum. What you say has a real effect on others, and if that effect is bad, you should be held accountable.

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by ajeet_dhaliwal on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @09:19AM (#20994687)
I don't really see how this is so hard. Don't treat women poorly, in person or online. Don't talk authoritatively about subjects you don't understand, especially when those subjects (like rape and human trafficking) cause people intense pain.

Morality is constantly changing and what is considered treating someone poorly changes too. More recently it appears to be changing faster than ever. That can make it hard to remain with the bounds of what is in the current instance of time considered socially acceptable by the majority. There is no absolute morality even though it may seem like it if you are thinking with the span of an hour or a day. Stretch it out and it's a constant shifting. In any case, I don't think anyone should be silenced. If they say something that the majority feels is foolish, they can be considered a fool, or a debate can be had to convince them of why they may be wrong, but to silence externally, or increasingly, self silencing with self censorship, in my opinion is dangerous as that means ideas cannot be discussed openly.

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by finnthehuman on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @08:01AM (#20993932)
>Don't talk authoritatively about subjects you don't understand

Then it's time to just shut down HN in general, eh?

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by KaiserPro on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @08:15AM (#20994020)
I'll have you know I'm an expert, I'll stake my [imaginary] PhD on it.
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by dangerface on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @02:18PM (#21008321)
> What you say has a real effect on others, and if that effect is bad, you should be held accountable.

Speech is just a tool to share a thought, if a thought effects some one it is for them to bare alone.

The idea that sharing thoughts should have consequences upsets me greatly, maybe it shouldn't but it does. Your speech has filled me with bad feelings and troubling thoughts is that burden mine to bare alone or should I hold you responsible?

The sword you are flailing is sharp at both ends.

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by noobermin on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @07:54AM (#20993890)
How does one learn what is wrong unless they speak out? You have to give people room to grow and forgive them when they fail.
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by Faark on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @08:22AM (#20994073)
Yes, people have to grow to not be stupid assholes. On the other side, if people think you're a stupid asshole, they should be allowed to cut off contact.

Thus you probably want to avoid growing in the only global circle we have. With smaller circles, getting cut off (as always has happened) is less of big deal.

In a similar vein, I'm fine with scientists exploring "IQ of the races" in their work. But going on a podcast and sharing that with a more general audience while not understanding its role in broader society while washing concerns away with "this just facts" is fine to have consequences.

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by concordDance on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @10:26AM (#21005751)
You seem to be advocating keeping the public ignorant. Presumably this only applies in cases the knowledge in question is an instance of the adage "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

Do you think having norms that advocate hiding knowledge that someone could argue is dangerous from the public will do more good than harm and won't backfire in the form of public distrust of experts?

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by kelnos on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @08:47AM (#20994333)
You learn by first listening, and asking questions. No one expects everyone to be perfect out of the gate, but you at least have to make an effort.
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by reirob on Saturday September 21, 2019 @05:06AM (#21034278)
I think that in general animals and people learn most efficiently by making mistakes. Sure, I am talking about mistakes that do not kill us. But even mistakes that kill, have hopefully a learning effect on those who observe.

I think as well that we as a society should learn to be more empathic, more tolerant, to learn how to forgive, and to avoid mob judgements.

Both, are my opinions. I don't know if there are any studies or references to this.

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by tomd3v on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @11:24AM (#20996263)
You learn by discussing.
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by kelnos on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @01:58PM (#20998154)
Sure, that's what "listening and asking questions" is. But in the beginning, when you know very little, your default should be to absorb, not to espouse.
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by Kye on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @09:33AM (#20994844)
Easy: don't speak authoritatively. Acknowledge the limits of your knowledge and invite better information from people who know better.

I would advise not speaking authoritatively even if you are an authority. People are less likely to offer suggestions and ideas you didn't consider if you act like you know what you're talking about. I learn all kinds of things by not sounding as certain as I usually am.

...they said, authoritatively. I'm a work in progress.

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by drcode on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @07:58AM (#20993913)
> Don't talk authoritatively about subjects you don't understand

No one is allowed to have an opinion unless they're an "expert"

(Sarcasm)

Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by kelnos on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @08:49AM (#20994348)
I get that you're being sarcastic, but... yes? It's fine to talk about topics where you're not an expert, but if you want to talk authoritatively about something, yes, I'd expect something at least approaching expert level.
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by ThrowawayR2 on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @09:05AM (#20994515)
Then, pray tell, what qualifies you to state your authoritative opinion on what we are permitted to talk about? We would like to see your credentials. /s
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by kelnos on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @01:59PM (#20998167)
I mean, I'm posting on HN so clearly I'm an expert in... oh... damn.
Re:Richard M. Stallman resigns by madmulita on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @08:21AM (#20994065)
You are right!

Maybe we should start an experts registry, so there is no confusion about who can speak.