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Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by munificent on Thursday September 12, 2019 @04:14PM (#20955941)
> "too many" people having too much disposable wealth.

I don't think this is the problem at all. The world is huge. There are millions of tourist destinations and plenty of room for people in all of them.

The problem is with distribution. Social media creates power law distributions of attention. There are a few pieces of writing I wish every human on Earth had read and this is one of them:

http://shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html

Instagram has caused these power law distributions to escape media onto the real world. While there are millions of delightful vacation destinations, most people never hear about most of them. Instead, a tiny minority of the most photogenic one (like Trolltunga, mentioned in the article), consume almost all of the attention and then net a huge, unmanageable number of visitors. For every Everest, there are a hundred mountains that are 90% as beautiful but only get 10% of the visitors.

I believe this is one of the fundamental, structural problems of the modern age. Most of the information we consume — literally the knowledge we base our worldview on — is now brought to our attention based on social media sharing and aggregation. The nature of those systems takes a linear range of "relevance" and distorts it into power law that no longer matches reality. But because this is our window into reality, we then take the result of that distortion at face value.

I would love to see more systems engineered to try to balance that. Perhaps a Twitter-like system that capped the number of followers you had. A recommendation engine that subtracted out the effect of popularity when ranking. But so far I don't see many. I'm not sure if it's because it's not what people want, not what advertisers want, or what.

(The great thing about knowing that this effect happens is that you can often easily acquire a better-than-average experience by deliberately stepping a little farther towards the long tail. The third best restaurant in a city is usually almost as good as #1 but noticeably cheaper. The second-most popular hike will give you 80% of the view with 20% of the crowds.)

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by schoen on Thursday September 12, 2019 @04:40PM (#20956205)
This is a great point! I've noticed a similar thing with Muir Woods in the San Francisco Bay Area. There are other amazing ancient redwood forests in several other places nearby (e.g. Samuel P. Taylor State Park, Redwood Regional Park, Joaquin Miller Park, the north side of Mount Tamalpais facing Fairfax, and several places along both sides of Skyline Drive along the peninsula -- probably among others that I don't know).

OK, the redwood trees in them might be only 80% as old and tall, the United Nations might not have been founded inside them, and some of them might have only 6 km of trails through the forest rather than 10 km. But many of these places are often nearly deserted, have no entrance fee, are a quicker and less twisty drive from San Francisco, and are incredibly majestic, peaceful, and spectacular.

Meanwhile, Muir Woods had to introduce a rationing and permit system to visit by private car or public bus (https://gomuirwoods.com/), and along the main trail on the valley floor you are basically never out of sight of other visitors during a weekend or holiday.

I've reserved a picnic area inside an ancient redwood grove for an upcoming birthday picnic.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/lake-lagunitas-fairfax

OK, it's definitely no Muir Woods, but it's just 6 km north of Muir Woods and you can reserve the area for a small fee on a weekend during the summertime.

I think the power-law effects you describe have been true of tourism forever. Muir Woods has attracted dramatically more tourists than the MMWD or EBMUD redwood groves for decades. But I also think you're right that the Internet is accelerating them, because you can hear about where to go via discovery mechanisms that so drastically and rapidly reward pre-existing popularity.

(If you live in or visit the Bay Area, check out https://www.marinwater.org/175/Directions-Maps-to-Watershed-... and https://www.ebmud.com/recreation/east-bay/east-bay-trails/ for information about hiking in -- often -- redwood forests owned by municipal water districts in reservoir watersheds, or https://www.marinwater.org/DocumentCenter/View/156/Map_Marin... for a map of all public lands in Marin County.)

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by munificent on Friday September 13, 2019 @01:00PM (#20963963)
> I think the power-law effects you describe have been true of tourism forever.

Yes, they are an emergent property any time you have a communication network where people rebroadcast information based on their preference, but restricted to the set of choices they are aware of.

But I believe the exponent of the power curve increases as the amount of resharing goes up. Before social media, you were still limited by what travel books you saw in a store, or where your friends went on vacation, but there was less reverberation and resonance in the network and a relatively flatter power curve.

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by schoen on Friday September 13, 2019 @05:03PM (#20966527)
I agree with your analysis and think this is a helpful way to think about what has and hasn't changed.
Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by lhorie on Thursday September 12, 2019 @06:58PM (#20957372)
I took advantage of the free redwood days last year and visited a bunch of state parks, and there's definitely a long list of hidden gems. Most just have the $10 parking fee and picnic tables are readily available.

The interesting observation is that choosing one of these parks consists of just going through a boring large list of parks in a boring old gov website and picking one at random. Whereas going to, say, Yosemite and finding sightseeing places largely involves going to google and/or local tourism guides and funnel the same way as everyone else (resulting in, as one might expect, arriving at spots crowded w/ tourists)

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by hairytrog on Thursday September 12, 2019 @10:18PM (#20958547)
Why do you have to post about this. Don't ruin the quiet places please.
Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by reificator on Thursday September 12, 2019 @04:47PM (#20956276)
> The problem is with distribution. Social media creates power law distributions of attention. There are a few pieces of writing I wish every human on Earth had read and this is one of them:

> http://shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html

I really hope this post was self aware.

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by DennisP on Thursday September 12, 2019 @05:14PM (#20956528)
Maybe people should stop making fun of hipsters, who consciously try to avoid the peaks of power law distributions.
Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by raverbashing on Thursday September 12, 2019 @06:56PM (#20957356)
And while avoiding it, they create an opposite peak of their own
Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by richk449 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @09:52PM (#20958421)
> I would love to see more systems engineered to try to balance that. Perhaps a Twitter-like system that capped the number of followers you had.

Is that really better? I think I like the current system. Sure, Everest is ruined, but there are a dozen places nearly as amazing that can be enjoyed with much less crowds. If you want bragging rights, then go to Everest. If you want serenity and beauty, go to the other mountains.

Given the number of people on earth, trying to distribute the people will just lead to everything being destroyed, albeit a little bit slower.

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by jcranberry on Friday September 13, 2019 @09:50AM (#20962121)
I don't think distribution is the only problem. Japan is currently trying to distribute tourists through shuttles/advertising/etc but there can be adverse effects on those communities in addition to the normal tourist spots.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Cover-Story/Japan-gets-mor...

There's just too many tourists.

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by gniv on Thursday September 12, 2019 @08:58PM (#20958093)
That's a good point. But it's still the case that there are superstar locations that everybody wants to go to. Pulpit Rock, Sagrada Familia, just to name a couple of newly-popular ones. I think for these the solution is to encourage off-season travel. Basically to spread the currently summer-heavy distribution over the entire year.
Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by DennisP on Thursday September 12, 2019 @06:23PM (#20957109)
> A recommendation engine that subtracted out the effect of popularity when ranking.

That's a pretty interesting idea. Get the stuff that's really particular to your interests, undiluted by what's just generally popular.

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by im3w1l on Thursday September 12, 2019 @06:50PM (#20957306)
But for abundant things we should all get the best and completely abandon second best.

It's only for scarce things like "place-to-visit" that we'd be better served with pushing the 2nd tier. 1st tier things should be a bit more crowded though: the equilibrium state is where less crowded 2nd tier is equally pleasant as more crowded 1st tier.

Re:Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism by z3t4 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @05:05PM (#20956453)
In statistics if 100 people think a destination is good what is the chance that the experience is not good?