Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by 70jS8h5L on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:45AM
(#20896091)
Turing's papers on the subject formed part of the research for my dissertation project, which culminated in a Matlab simulation of the skin patterns he described with inhibitors/activators.
I recently converted it to JS and also Ruby, as an excuse for a few coding exercises. It's still a work in progress, but can be found here:
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by imglorp on Friday September 06, 2019 @12:23PM
(#20897007)
Since you're in the field, maybe I could ask about your impression of Wolfram's NKS? As a layperson, I understand it's a generalization of many classes of such patterns.
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by 70jS8h5L on Saturday September 07, 2019 @12:11PM
(#20904677)
Actually, the dissertation project was my only experience with the field. Although I read some of NKS at the time, it's a distant memory and so I wouldn't be able to say!
Really interesting guy and the book covers a whole host of areas where self-organising systems shape organisms without necessarily much genetic intervention
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by AllegedAlec on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:14AM
(#20895311)
Cool. It's fun to see how Turing patterns are everywhere in biology. However, as Turing himself said (allegedly): 'Well the stripes are easy, but what about the horse part?'
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by anigbrowl on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:29PM
(#20901409)
Having developed an amateur interest in cell biology over the last few years, the single most interesting thing I've learned is that Interglobulin-M cells cells just happen to have same basic morphology as the kind of animals that they come from.
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by anigbrowl on Saturday September 07, 2019 @09:12PM
(#20907888)
I'm so sorry, I should have written immunoglobulin-M and didn't notice my mistake. I don't feel qualified to recommend a text, I just follow references from here.
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by AllegedAlec on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:57PM
(#20897996)
That explains what the central dogma is, but not how specific patterns of gene expression lead to a horse. That's something that's still quite a mystery. Hell, even after a lot of work, we don't still entirely know how even something as simple as Drosophila does its segmentation.
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by anigbrowl on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:26PM
(#20901402)
I feel like this pattern is a great example of how mathematicians, scientists, and technologists should focus their attentions on things that are economical and 'good enough' rather than fetishizishing ever-increasing levels of precision.
While, say, calculating fundamental constants to the nth degree of precision is fun and intellectually satisfying in many respect, the marginal utility of each additional digit of precision asymptotically approaches zero so it's really a self-indulgent luxury. But this fetishizing of precision also has drawbacks; it misdirects resources and effort into improvements whose benefits fall far short of the costs.
You wouldn't use a laser pointer to explore a room. Of course you could; but mapping a topological space using LIDAR is only possible because we have computers to do the vast amount of number crunching required, and it's only very recently that we've gone from very sparse representations to ones of sufficiently high resolution to give us representations that are immediately recognizable as familiar spaces.
I will take fast proximity over slow exactitude any day of the week; I want models that get me close enough with very few parameters rather than more perfect ones that require a thick book's worth of specifications to articulate.
Re:Ancient Turing Pattern Builds Feathers, Hair and Now Shar...
by ColanR on Friday September 06, 2019 @11:46PM
(#20901671)
Unfortunately, this is more a generalized problem of human disbelief in the unlikely than anything specific to science. We can't really say, 'scientists now have to be more receptive to weird ideas'.
I recently converted it to JS and also Ruby, as an excuse for a few coding exercises. It's still a work in progress, but can be found here:
https://github.com/rai-hi/rails-skin-patterning
Demo here:
https://skin-simulator.herokuapp.com/
https://www.wolframscience.com
Really interesting guy and the book covers a whole host of areas where self-organising systems shape organisms without necessarily much genetic intervention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunoglobulin_M
https://youtu.be/ydqReeTV_vk
While, say, calculating fundamental constants to the nth degree of precision is fun and intellectually satisfying in many respect, the marginal utility of each additional digit of precision asymptotically approaches zero so it's really a self-indulgent luxury. But this fetishizing of precision also has drawbacks; it misdirects resources and effort into improvements whose benefits fall far short of the costs.
You wouldn't use a laser pointer to explore a room. Of course you could; but mapping a topological space using LIDAR is only possible because we have computers to do the vast amount of number crunching required, and it's only very recently that we've gone from very sparse representations to ones of sufficiently high resolution to give us representations that are immediately recognizable as familiar spaces.
I will take fast proximity over slow exactitude any day of the week; I want models that get me close enough with very few parameters rather than more perfect ones that require a thick book's worth of specifications to articulate.
This also fits well with how codebases are managed: linting, style, patterns, etc.